Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:36:21 -1000
From: "R.L. Shep"
> Could everyone please repost your costuming webpages' addresses and what
> costuming information it may have?
http://www.mcn.org/R/RAGS
~!~ R.L. Shep
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:45:40 -1000
From: "R.L. Shep"
Subject: Foreign Museum Catalogs, etc.
It is: [email protected]
ask for their catalog, it has foreign museum catalogs, out of print books,
etc., and is called: "Books on Cloth"
~!~ R.L. Shep
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:40:21 -1000
From: [email protected] (Miesje de Vogel)
Subject: period blues...
Just a little something I found to add to the debate on blue in
tudor/renaissance times...
In late SCA period (Henrician, 1533) there is for example a sumptuary law
which restricts the wearing of purple silk to members of the royal family,
and of scarlet and blue silk and velvet to those with the rank of knight of
the garter and above, and to the children of those peers above the rank of
Earl (R. Ashton, 1984).
So maybe although we have a hard time tracking it down outside France, it
was a fashionable colour, giiven that sumptuary laws were so hard to enforce, or maybe
it was just that ny a particular shade of blue was fashionable...
miesje.
thinking of the most beautiful blue late Tudor dress belonging to meliora...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:53:24 -1000
Subject: re:dress closure around 1500
Lisa Leong wrote:
Hi all,
I've been looking at photographs of _The Lady With the Unicorn_
tapestry series which were woven around 1500. In the one called _Smell_
one of the ladies is wearing a gown that shows buttons from the hip to
the waist (and maybe up to the armhole, her arm covers it).
-------------------------------------
And I add: Having recently seen this set of tapestries at the Cluny Museum in
Paris -- it is so very lovely that I wanted to make all six outfits!
In the fine print, the exhibit noted that the costume styles were the fantasy of the
artist, and not reflections of any style worn anywhere in France at the
time. More Italian than French, in the curator's opinion. I'd get a second
source before citing these tapestries for period practice. But are they ever
gorgeous. Rescued from being used as throw rugs by the 19th C. novelist Georges Sand.
Danine Cozzens Internet: [email protected]
Phone: 415/973-1388
Pacific Gas and Electric Company San Francisco, CA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:44:42 -1000
From: "B.M. O'Brien"
Subject: Re: Janet Arnold Article
I am not guaranteeing anything (including Denise's willingness to copy
articles), but here is the original post about this article from Jan
1994....
********************************************
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 1994 10:04:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: List of Articles
Here is the first of several lists of articles I have available for
anyone interested. If you wish to receive a copy of any of the articles,
please send me your request VIA US MAIL, with one $.29 stamp for each 8
pages of articles. If the article is less than 8 pages, just send me a
SASE. Send requests to:
Denise Zaccagnino
Harvard University
Environmental Health & Safety
46 Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
Please allow a reasonable time for mailing -- remember that I can only do
so much xeroxing and only have so much time to do this.
COSTUMING ARTICLES
"Elizabethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts," by Janet Arnold. Waffen-und
Kostumkunde, Pt. 2 (1977), pp. 89-110.
"Three examples of late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuryneckwear,"
by Janet Arnold. Waffen-und Kostumkunde, Pt. 2(1973), pp. 109-124.
"Two Early Seventeenth Century Fencing Doublets," by Janet Arnold.
Waffen-und Kostumkunde, Pt. 2 (1979), pp. 107-20
"A Mantua c. 1708=A99 Clive House Museu, College Hill, Shrewsbury," by
Janet Arnold. Costume #4, 1970, pp. 26-31.
"A Court Mantua of c. 1740," by Janet Arnold. Costume #6, 1972,pp. 48-52.
"A Pink Domino c. 1760=A970 at the Victoria and Albert Museum," by Janet
Arnold. Costume #3, 1969, pp. 31-34.
"Female Costume in Aesthetic Movement of the 1870 and 1880s," by Leonee
Ormond. Costume #2, 1968, pp. 33-38.
"The Medieval 'Corset'," by Kay Staniland. Costume #3, 1969, pp. 10-13.
"Mary Tudor's Wardrome," by Alison J. Carter. Costume #18, 1984,pp. 9-28.
"Reflections on the Polish Nobleman's Attire in the Sarmatian Tradition,"
by George E. Borchard. Costume #4, 1970, pp. 13-22.
"Bejewelled Fur Tippets and the Palatine Fashion," by Francis Weiss.
Costume #4, 1970, pp. 37-43.
"Burgundian Court Costume from a Norwich Tapestry," by Lesley Parker.
Costume #5, 1971, pp. 14-18.
"Sumptuary Legislation and English Costume, an Attempt to Assess the
Effect of the Act of 1337," by Clifford R. Bell and Evelyn Ruse. Costume
#6, 1972, pp. 22-31.
"A Fifteenth Century Pattern for 'Chausses'," by Christina Hawkins.
Costume #6, 1972, pp. 84-85.
"Vestments from the Robinson Collection at the Whitworth Gallery,
Manchester," by Joan Allgrove. Costume #6, 1972, pp. 76-79.
"Scottish Portraits as a Source for the Costume Historian," by Rosalind
K. Marshall. Costume #15, 1981, pp. 67-70.
"Prince Edward's Clothes," by J. L. Nevinson. Costume #2, 1968, pp. 3-8.
"Castle Howard: A Costume Museum in a Stately Home," by Cecile Hummel.
Costume #2, 1968, pp. 30-32.
"Manuscript Sources for the History of Medieval Costume," by Janet
Backhouse. Costume #?, 19??, pp. 9-14.
"The Rates of the London Custom House in 1550," by Joan Edwards and J. L.
Nevinson. Costume #4, 1770, pp. 3-12.
"Hosiery: A Bibliography," by Madeleine Ginsburg. Costume #2, 1968, pp.
39-45.
****************************************************************
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Erin Harvey Moody wrote:
> In the original post, I believe someone was looking for the Janet Arnold
shirts and smocks article published in Waffen und Kostumkunde. No one seems
> to be responding to the "who has this in the first place", all I see are
> continuing requests for the article. I do not have a copy on hand but
probably can obtain one. However, does anyone remember when this might have
> been published? My research indicates that Waffen.... goes back as far as
> 1897. I do not have the resources to search via author not the time to
search back 100 years (okay Arnold isnt that old but....), unless some other
> research guru out there can dig this one up, I would need more info from
> someone here to give me a starting point.
>
> Please email me or the list and I will keep the list updated on what I can find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Donlan, Vincent"
To: costume list
Subject: Lady and the Unicorn
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:00:00 -1000
To whoever asked about the Lady and the Unicorn - I was about to say that I
too believed the pictures to be entirely fanciful and buttons wouldn't
really work then I saw a picture from the Sistene Chapel. I don't have the
book with me and can't tell you the title off hand, but I'll look it up if
you need to know. One of the nymphs (or whatever she is) is wearing a dress
which has no shoulders but does seem to button up the side seam, this time
under the left arm, and the closing flaps forward, as in the Lady and the
Unicorn picture. Even so, having worn garments fastened with buttons of
that period, I wouldn't entirely trust such a method of closure to protect
my dignity.
Sally Ann Chandler
The Historical Clothing Company
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 06:22:20 -1000
Sender: Franchesca
Subject: web pages
Thank you everyone for giving me your webpage addresses. Here are the ones you
all own! There are a high number of other resources but they are on these
pages so go forth and search! :)
Pattern making, Pattern slopes for men's trousers, vests and womens bodices,
sleeves and soon skirts:
http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/index.html
general costume patterns:
http://www.u-net.com/~evermore/ukcostum.htm
http://palantir.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mhorrill
http://www.bibiana.com/velvet/peasant.html
professional patternmaker cad program (excellent working demo!):
http://www.eskimo.com/~pmaker
Dallas Fabric Shopping:
http://ares.redsword.com/dduperault/stores.htm
The Costume Page:
http://ddi.digital.net/~milieux/costume.html
Boot patterns:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/
Elizabethian Resources:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jsingman/TBLResources.html#Costume
Elizabethian Corsets:
"http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/">http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/
Archives from the rialto:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/rialto.html
Color Names Through the Centuries:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2157/
RAGS Magazine:
http://204.189.12.10/R/RAGS/HTML/CTLink.html
Bra and Underwire FAQ's:
http://www.funhouse.com/babs/FAQ.html
The Costume Page with Costume Convention Calender:
http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html
Godey's Ladies books:
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/welcome.html
History of Costume by Braun & Schular:
http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/history.html
(has entire book of color plates online!)
Gallery of Garb:
http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html
Crossstitch:
http://www.crl.com/~kdyer/software.html
Merchants:
http://www.clever.net/rencross/merchind.htm
MISC:
Online Magazine Recreating History:
http://www.recreating-history.com
Online Suppliers:
Past Impressions:
www.geocities.com/Broadway/3379
Links to other Suppliers:
http://members.aol.com/nebula5/tcpsupp.html#suppliers
"Iain DubhSpirag [email protected] has created an anonymous FTP directory for
armory articles & patterns. He does have access to a scanner so those who
have patterns they would like see on the web but have no
scanner capability can snail mail the patterns to the following
address and he will scan and upload them:
Iain DubhSpirag
519 North Ninth Street
Murphysboro, IL 62966
The FTP is ftp://131.230.64.6 and the armory upload directory is /armour.
Hopefully this will become a benefit to armorers throughout the knowne
worlde."
Let me know of your pages as they develope!
Lady Chiara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:01:34 -1000
From: Sue Walker
Subject: Catalogues
The list is as follows:
Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works
2218 East 11th Street
Davenport, IA 52803
Pattern catalogue only $7.00
Hegehog Handworks
P.O. Box 45384
Weschester, CA 90045
Catalogue $5
MacKenzie-Smith
P.O. Box 3315
Truckee, CA 96160
Period Patterns catalogue only (cost not listed)
Moresca Clothing and Costume
361 Union Center Rd
Ulster Park, NY 12487
Catalogue $5
Raiments
P.O. Box 93095
Pasedena, CA 91752-1577
Catalogue $5
If you know of anywhere else which is really good for patterns please let
me know or get the catalogues and I'll be forever in your debt.
Thanks in advance
Sue Walker
via [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:36:29 -1000
Subject: ARCHIVES FYI
Several of you have written to me about the archives. Although I voluteered to
house them I do not have them. Here are the two sites that have them at the
moment taken from Diane's old posts. The first is still working, I do not know
about the second one.
1) http://reality.sgi.com/pdc/h-costume/index.html
2)
>Those of you needing archives after closing, today, can get them courtesy
>of the generosity of Eric Praetzel . He's
>placed them all on his ftp site for easy access:
> You'll find the old archives in ece.uwaterloo.ca under
> pub/jpeg/h-costume (anonymous ftp). They'll be safe there
> for a while. -- Eric
>Bye! See you in cyberspace!
>--
>Diane Close
>I'm at lunch today. :-)
>July 1st, reach me c/o [email protected]
Lady Chiara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:27:19 -1000
From: [email protected] (Marsha Hamilton)
Subject: Re: 17th c "doublet" jacket
The Folk Wear Bolivian Milkmaid jacket is a good pattern for a 17th century
woman's jacket. If you want more of a doublet effect, make the sleeves
detachable (put round buttonholes at the top of the sleeve and around the
jacket armhole so sleeves can be laced on or off as desired) and lengthen
the jacket an inch or two. Either line with buckram or other stiffening or
Just bone the seams. When I do 17th century, I put 5 yards just in the
skirt. You might do this in muslim first to make sure you have enough fabric.
There is ample portrait evidence for a jacket and skirt of the same
material. The embroidered jackets (like the Lytton jacket at the Victoria
and Albert) were popular but not universal. Portraits more commonly show
matching fabric for bodice and skirt. Good luck.
Marsha
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:31:52 -1000
From: "I. Marc Carlson"
Subject: Footwear of the Middle Ages
The latest version of this text is now in place and available at
"http://www.pbm.com/~lindman/Carlson".
Marc Carlson
(Still working on Medieval Hats...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:56:00 -1000
From: [email protected] (Bill and Glenna Christen)
Subject: RE: Scorch Marks
You wrote:
>Please, please do clutter up the list with information about how to
>remove scorch marks. I'd like to know the answer...
The answer that I received that worked very well was to dampen a clean
coth with hydrogen peroxide, lay it over the scorched area and press
with a warm iron. Since my collar was of linen and only mildly
scorched it worked like a charm! I was warned this method is only
guaranteed for cotton or linen. I'm not sure what will work for other
materials or badly scorched stuff.
Thanks for the replies!
Glenna Jo Christen
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:16:45 -1000
From: thomas gladysz
Subject: on-line fashion books
Howdy,
I'm the costume history book buyer for a large independent bookstore in San
Francisco. I'm also the webmistress there. I've been working like crazy,
and I've put up most of our Costume history section on-line. Our URL is;
www.bookstore.com
To skip directly to the costuming section, go to : www.bookstore.com/fash1.html
Like most costume related stuff, it is a labor of love. Hope y'all like it.
Christy Pascoe
A Clean Well -Lighted Place for Books,Webmistress
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:14:50 -1000
Subject: J. Arnold Smocks, Gypsy Costume, Sleeves and Stuff
Hello to the List. It always takes me about a month to catch up with this, so apologies
for outdated replies. My assumption is that they may still be useful! First, I have
emailed Denise Zaccagnino (a friend) and asked her for a copy of the much desired
Waffen und Kostume article on smocks by Janet Arnold. I think I wanted it from her
anyway, or maybe I even have it somewhere! However, once I get it, I am willing to
do the requested copies and mailings, if people send me a SASE for them (Int'l if
necessary). I will not be able to do this before 1 October, however, and will post my address
then.
Next, regarding the question on 17th C. Gypsy costume: there exists an article that
was published in Costume magazine (published in UK) on 16th C. Gypsy costume. I would
imagine that this would be helpful. I have it at home, and could copy it for whoever
asked. I really should not be saying such things, as I am horribly bogged down by an
SCA event creating Burgundy in 1450 coming up really soon. However, the offer stands!
Regarding the comment on 16th century Ren fair garb out of Hunter Green fabric and
detachable sleeves: the comment was made that they should be ties, not buttons. I
have made late 16th century Italian peasant garb out of Vecellio that has button-on
sleeves. I originally made them ties, but got sick of them untying. In addition, there are
peculiar large buttons all over the bodice front and down the sleeve elbow opening.
With THAT many buttons on it, it seemed logical that the sleeves might remove by
being buttoned also. Just a thought.
Liz Jones
[email protected] (Don't use reply, use forward instead)
aka Maestra Damiana (SCA)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:14:27 -1000
From: "R.L. Shep"
Subject: Web Site
In case any of you have not looked in on my Web Site, the following message
might spur you on to doing that.
~!~ R.L. Shep
http://www.mcn.org/R/RAGS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:31:00 -1000
From: Margo Anderson
Subject: Elizabethan noble costumes
>I have questions about the authenticity of trims I have seen used on
>Elizabethan re-creations.
>
>One was the use of tiny irridescent rocaille beads. Are rocailles period?
>How about that irridescent blue-purple-green coating?
>
>Another was the use of metallic copper braid. Wouldn't real copper have
>tarnished green? Would there be any way to clean it once it was sewed to
>the garment? Is there ANY documentation for copper trim?
>
>How about jewels with Aroura Borealis coating? does anyone know when this
>treatment began?
>
>My other question is about the practice of making a matching bodice and
>skirt as separate garments. Was this really a period practice? Arnold's
>book seems to show mostly bodices missing their skirts, or one peice gowns
>with the skirt sewn to the bottom edge of the bodice.
>
> I have found that when the seperate bodice and skirt are worn, the skirt
>almost always slips down and shows its waistband below the bodice, if there
>is no skirting or picadils to conceal it.
>
> When I worked in a theater costume shop, we made gowns by completely
>finishing the bodices, then making the skirts with a concealed placket at
>the same location as the bodice opening, pleating them into a petersam
>waistband, and herringboning the waistband to the inside of the bodice.
>This makes a less bulky, more comfortable garment, and is especially good
>for children and others without a clearly defined waistline to hold the
>skirt up. But is it period?
>
>Margo Anderson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:16:35 -1000
From: don and carolyn richardson
Subject: Re: Elizabethan noble costumes
Margo Anderson wrote:
>
> > I have found that when the seperate bodice and skirt are worn, the skirt
> >almost always slips down and shows its waistband below the bodice, if there
> >is no skirting or picadils to conceal it.
A common problem - most of my costuming friends (including a bunch of
SCA Laurels) will sew hooks into the bodice lining and eyes into the
waistband, and join them up when the skirt and bodice are not one
piece (which is difficult to get into when you're talking Elizabethans).
I make my Italians all one piece since I don't usually have help
dressing and it's easier to get into them that way. I think this is
documentable since the Italians tended to layer stuff more than the
English, but I confess I haven't tried documenting it.
Carolyn
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:27:19 -1000
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: [email protected] (Miesje de Vogel)
Subject: cartridge pleats and peter aersten...
Hi all...
As usual I'm writing in the middle of a costume crisis. I'm trying to get a
costume together which resembles as closely as possible the dresses from
the kitchen scene and market scene period of Flemish painting (mostly by
Peter Aersten, approx 1550's). I have cartridge pleated the skirt onto the
bodice, but cannot seem to get it to sit right - the pleats are over an
inche deep, in lined wool suiting. They pull at the back of the bodice
(flat at front, knife pleats at side, cartridge pleats at the back) and
make crinkles and stuff. Anyone got ay ideas?
miesje.
(trying her damnedest at something a little different)
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mrs C S Yeldham
Subject: Re: Elizabethan noble costumes
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:00:00 -1000
Margo Anderson wrote
>>One was the use of tiny irridescent rocaille beads. Are rocailles
period? How about that irridescent blue-purple-green coating?
>
Don't know these at all, sounds most unlikely! The only 'beading' I know
of are pearls, real or fake, sequins, embroidery, enamel work and jewels.
Fake pearls were made with gelatine and fish scales to give an
irridescent glow.
>>Another was the use of metallic copper braid. Wouldn't real copper
>>have tarnished green? Would there be any way to clean it once it was
>>sewed to the garment? Is there ANY documentation for copper trim?
Don't know about copper (doesn't ring a bell - cheaper ornamentation
tends to be silk, linen or wool braid). Certainly silver braid was used,
which will also tarnish. Braids were almost certainly removable for
cleaning. I think the very high court dresses were probably in need of
constant maintenance, ruffs certainly were. Arnold's booklet 'Lost from
Her Majesty's Back' gives the impression Elizabeth constantly shed
ornaments from her dresses!
>
>My other question is about the practice of making a matching bodice and
>skirt as separate garments. Was this really a period practice?
>Arnold's book seems to show mostly bodices missing their skirts, or one
>peice gowns with the skirt sewn to the bottom edge of the bodice.
>
> I have found that when the seperate bodice and skirt are worn, the
>skirt almost always slips down and shows its waistband below the bodice,
>if there is no skirting or picadils to conceal it.
This is a yes, but answer. Most high Elizabethan outfits do involve tabs
(I know pickadils as the smaller tabs at the wrist or neck to support
ruffs) at the waistline which help cover the waistline join. When I
make them I mount the skirt on a separate waistband (petersham or equally
stiff) and then sew that to the bodice to stop movement. From memory
this is what Arnold shows. It does make it easier to manage the bulk.
The tabs at the waist are mounted onto the bottom of the bodice and drop
over to hide the join.
This might also help miesje's question. Have you separately mounted the
cartidge pleated skirt and then attached to the bodice or put it directly
onto the bodice? I suggest the latter might well cause pulling on the
bodice (depending on how stiff the bodice is, the Flemish and Dutch stuff
always looks really stiff!)
Hope this helps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Liz Stokes
Subject: Re: Elizabethan noble costumes
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:26:35 -1000
I've sometimes laced my Elizabethans together with decorative points. The
ribbons are sewn to the skirt and the bodice has pairs of eyelets. The
ribbons are laced up from below and tied with in a bow or arming
point. There are examples of this both visible and hidden. It's also a good
technique for doublets and trunkhose, and for lacing your farthingale to
your corset, which takes the weight off your hips and lower back.
Liz Stokes
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 07:13:32 -1000
From: "Karen Lovejoy"
Subject: FWD>RE>Elizabethan noble co
Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked shows a bodice decorated with green glass
rocailles. I can't remember the page number, don't have it here at work.=
I have also seen examples of Elizabethan decorated with bugle beads and other
colors of rocailles, I don't have my sources here with me but I can look them
up if any one needs them. I don't remember anything about iridescent, seems
unlikely, but I can look. I am a beader by speciality and have done quite a
lot of research on them. Pearls were used more frequently then bugles or
rocailles but there is certainly evidence that they were used.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mrs C S Yeldham
Subject: Lacing Farthingales
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 04:19:00 -1000
Liz Stokes said
>I've sometimes laced my Elizabethans together with decorative points.
>The ribbons are sewn to the skirt and the bodice has pairs of eyelets.
>The ribbons are laced up from below and tied with in a bow or armingpoint.
>There are examples of this both visible and hidden. It's also a
>good technique for doublets and trunkhose, and for lacing your farthingale
>toyour corset, which takes the weight off your hips and lower back.
I've seen this technique in pictures for doublets and trunkhose but never
for women's skirts. I would also like to say that I don't think its a good
idea to try to take the weight off your hips (shouldn't really hit lower
back anyway). If you lace to the corset the only place the weight can go
is on your shoulders and possibly ribs. Neither of these are anything like
as strong as hips and thighs. The only time I've had problems wearing
Elizabethan clothes is when the waist was too loose and the weight sat on
my shoulders - agony after a couple of days.
Caroline
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:52:25 -1000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Mid-Late 15th Armscye Treatments
Good Morning!
This weekend, a young lady asked me about whether picadils were always used
with shoulder rolls on bodices from the middle-late 15th Century. She also
was wondering if they were always formed into loops or if they could be left
flat. She was inquiring primarily about English costuming, but was interested
in other countries of the time period. Off hand, I couldn't give her a firm
answer. Running through the library, I couldn't find any examples to give
help. From Janet Arnold's books, it looks like they were all combined with
shoulder rolls and looped. But that's not enough info to say they much beyond
"sometimes" or "usually." Can anyone recommend any sources which might show
them without shoulder rolls or flat?
Thanks!
Lyssa
[email protected] or [email protected]
http://www.usa.net/~norseman/costume.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:27:00 -1000
From: Mrs C S Yeldham
Subject: mid-late 15th Armscye Treatments
Lyssa said
>This weekend, a young lady asked me about whether picadils were always used
>with shoulder rolls on bodices from the middle-late 15th Century. She also
was wondering if they were always formed into loops or if they could be left
flat. She was inquiring primarily about English costuming, but was interested
>in other countries of the time period. Off hand, I couldn't give her a firm
>answer. Running through the library, I couldn't find any examples to give
>help. From Janet Arnold's books, it looks like they were all combined with
>shoulder rolls and looped. But that's not enough info to say they much
beyond "sometimes" or "usually." Can anyone recommend any sources which might
show them without shoulder rolls or flat?
I can't help but wonder if there is a mistake in century here. It's my
understanding that, certainly in England, there are no shoulder rolls or
pickadills on women's clothes (or mens!) in the *15th* century. For that
matter there are no 'bodices' - they are always cut through the waist, so
that, how ever many pieces go into the kirtle, or gown, the upper and lower
body pieces are one (I hope that explains what I mean). The line is very
smooth and the shape triangular (narrow at top, full at bottom).
Separate bodices, shoulder rolls and pickadills (or tabs) are mid *16th*
century in England - I think its a little earlier in Italy. Later in the
century tabs at the arm, like the ones at the waist, are cut and sewn to
shape not just a roll of cloth - but I think Janet Arnold shows that in
Patterns of Fashion. The emphasis changes, and women become two triangles,
broad shoulders and full at the hem, with the points of the triangles
intersecting at the waist - the picture of Lettice Knollys is a good
example. Therefore the idea is to exaggerate the shoulder line.
Hope this helps.
Caroline
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: Kelly A Rinne
From: Melissa Hicks
Subject: Re: H-costume digest. Volume 4 Number 2
Kelly,
The original poster asked among other questions what time would we date this
dress? If the only written source we can find dates it to 1515 but the
dress style dates it to mid-1540s, what date do the sleeves now make it??
Melissa.
At 10:34 AM 15/09/96 -0400, Kelly A Rinne wrote:
>When you consider how often gowns in this period were re-made to suit
>varying fashions (even for royalty) it wouldn't surprise me at all to see
>a neww sleeve style on an older dress.
>Kel
>On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Melissa Hicks wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
I am finally catching up with my newsgroups. I Re: the portait of Mary Tudor
and Charles Brandon. I was attempting to make both of these for an SCA
event this weekend (what can I say, wedding plans intervened), but I noticed
that the pattern for Mary's dress is VERY similar to the pattern of Princess
>> Elizabeth (the pink one) and the pattern for Lady Jane Grey (ivory with red
>> underskirt) which are both dated mid-1540s.
>>
>> The sleeves on the Mary Tudor are quite different though.
>>
>> Melissa - from Canberra.
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:29:18 -1000
From: Andrew Tarrant
Subject: Re: Higher backed corset????
At 01:09 PM 9/22/96 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>Hello, my friends,
>I was wondering if any 15th or 16th century corset had a full or high back?
(ex the 18th's) I have back problems and a corset like this would help when
>wearing my costumes.
>Thank you
>Kimberly
>
>Hi, my Elizabethan corset pattern goes all the way to the top of my
shoulder blades, and is incredibly comfortable. I think that as a general
fule corset heights are the same as the back height of the garment with
which they are to be worn. My pattern came from a book called Period
Costume for Stage and Screen, by Jean Hunnisett, and covers periods from
1500 to 1800, with all the corresponding corset patterns.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:51:48 -1000
From: Andrew Tarrant
Subject: Re: Where to find patterns?
You could try Period Patterns, Which can be ordered from Medeval
Reproductions #1, 1255 - 45 Avenue, N.E. Calgary Alberta T2E 2P2 Phone
(403)735-1909 fax (403)274-2247 They have Elizabethan gowns #56 and Womens
undergarments #90 Tudor gowns #51 Tudor headresses are #52. They also have
men's garb for the same peroid. The price is $25 for most and $22 for the
headress patterns, and is GST exempt. I don't know if they are going to be
any easier to construct than any of the other methods your friends have
already dismissed, but if they feel less intimidated with a printed pattern,
then maybe this is the way to go. - Julie Malin (stealing my husbands e=
mail)
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:29:51 -1000
From: don and carolyn richardson
Subject: Re: cable ties
> Actually, a friend of mine who's husband is a prison guard used the size of
> cable ties used for riot cuffs to bone a bodice. They were about the right
> length and a little stiffer and stronger that the plastic boning sold in
> fabric stores. As far as I know, they worked just fine.
>
> Hollie
My best friend (and current Queen of Caid in the SCA) uses cable ties for boning her
corsets also. She works for the phone company (GTE) and they go thru reams of the
stuff. It's a fairly stiff plastic, at least the 3/8 inch stuff is, and works well
in place of straight metal bones. I've used the smaller stuff on her recommendation (the
regular ties you can get at Radio Shack or the hardware store) for boning my Italian
Rencorset and they work terrific. Filing the ends is a must, tho, since they tend
to wear thru couteil and canas if they aren't filed (sharp edges, ouch!).
I used the 3/8 inch ties for a bustle once - it was okay but I think spring steel
gives you a longer lived bustle.
Carolyn
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Subject: Costume Research Resources
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:45:09 -1000
From: [email protected] (Kim Ann Innes)
I have just started posting a new series of pages to my web site on
Historic Costume Research.
Kim Ann Innes ([email protected])
Imported European trim; publications on embroidery, costuming, and heraldry:
http://www.cyberramp.net/~tigger/
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:23:40 -1000
From: Joanne Haug
Subject: 18th C. corset
Hello everyone!
I put an 18th C. corset at my Reflections of the Past site
that had been altered
during the 18th C. from a back closing to a front closing with fabric flaps
that would have been pinned closed. Does anyone have a theory as to why this
would have been done. There are images of the corset online which shows the
alteration.
Joanne Haug
Reflections of the Past, Antique Costume & Textiles
~and~
Victoriana- Resources for Victorian Living
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:38:02 -1000
From: "Penny E. Ladnier"
Subject: Past Patterns
Can someone please post the address and phone number for Past Patterns.
Does anyone know if they ship over night?
FYI: My webpage is still at the same site. The post last week on historic
costume research may have confused you.
Historic Costume Research
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2157
Look for an addition in the future to my page. I am taking a Historic
Costume Design Research class. I will be taking the people through the
development stages of my designs for "The Philadelphia Story"(1930's) and
"The Importance of Being Ernest"(1890's). Near the end of the semester, I
will be designing an Queen Elizabeth play.
Remember, drawing is not speciality. But I am pretty good at sewing and
research. All my drawings will be the latest in technological drawing with
the computer. I will be taking the viewer through the research also. This
class is a blast!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joan Broneske
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 18:30:58 -1000
Joan Broneske
[email protected]
http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html
back