Interview with Bob Cleaver

I would like to preface the following by saying that all these comments should not be taken as “gospel” and are all based on my own personal experiences and as such someone else’s viewpoint could be quite different. [Editor's Note: This interview is based on one comprehensive interview with Mr. Cleaver. If you would like to view the interview in its entirety, which simultaneously asks about seven species at once (the three species of wombat, Western grey kangaroo, brush-tailed bettong, and long nosed Potoroo), visit the following link: *Bob Cleaver Marsupial Interview*]

The Western Grey Kangaroo is a peculiarity of the kangaroo world in that it does NOT (as do all the others) display embryonic diapause.

Positives of Western Grey Kangaroo as pets?
Are affectionate towards their carers and remain so throughout their lives.

Negatives of Western Grey Kangaroo as pets?
Time consuming and expensive to hand raise. They would be one of the more difficult kangaroos to hand raise although they do become very affectionate towards their carer.

Males should be ALWAYS castrated when around 5kgs in weight. This is NOT AN OPTION. IT IS ESSENTIAL. All adult male 'roos, of whatever species, are dangerously unpredictable if not castrated when small.

Do they have scent glands or an offensive smell?
Western Grey Kangaroos do have scent glands and the males can become very pungent – not so much with the females.

What is their average lifespan?
Kangaroo – 20-25 years (depending on species – Greys seem to live longer than Reds). Note: this is an educated guesstimate.

Do they enjoy interaction?
I’m not comfortable with the word ‘enjoy’, but if handraised, they will certainly crave human companionship.

What is their general personality, disposition, and attitude?
This is an impossible question to answer as they are all individuals and as individuals are all different. I would answer this question by asking another. How would you answer this question if it were asked of a human being? The answer will be the same!

Are they sweet and petable, or mischievous and playful?
The simple answer is none of the above, but again this would be age and individual related. As young animals the wombat and the kangaroo could be considered playful, but not as adults.

How destructive are they for an average household?
None of these animals would be suitable for indoor living on a long term basis. They would all become either very destructive or smelly.

Do they climb or tear up furniture?
Yes.

Are there any problems associated with their claws?
No not particularly, but they all have sharp claws which can potentially inflict severe wounds, although I would not consider this to be a problem and feel that it would be by accident rather than design. The exception here would be the kangaroo. A full male can inflict fatal wounds with his hind feet if you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How messy are their droppings?
Generally not at all – mostly they are quite dry.

Can they be litter box trained?
NO, But then there are always exceptions to the rule

Can they be trained?
NO, YES, MAYBE ??? but limited. Personally I don’t believe so - but they will train you.

How are they with other pets, larger and smaller?
Again this will depend on whether or not the creature concerned has been brought up with the other pet. If yes, then they should get along together ok, if not, then it would be a different story. As a general rule Kangaroos and dogs don’t mix (dogs like to play – kangaroos do not = conflict).

What size cage do they need?
How long is a piece of string? This is an enormous question and has book potential. This is a subject which I am currently writing up as a four part article for this (and next) years’ issues of “Keeping Marsupials” - the quarterly Journal of The Marsupial Society of Australia Inc. To date there is twenty four pages of text and I have only just started on part four. To subscribe go to http://www.marsupialsociety.org.au/.

What do you feed them?
Another huge question. To try and put this in a nutshell, let me say that the wombat and the kangaroo should be fed a dry pelletised food of some description but be careful not to get one that contains too much protein (avoid horse foods, they are too high in protein and too high in mineral content). We have been using one, which all our animals seem to enjoy that is designed for goats. There is one available in Australia designed specifically for kangaroos but for some reason our animals seem to leave it in preference for the goat meal. High protein levels, particularly for the wombat, can, potentially involve some problems. They should also be offered green feed of some sort and a good meadow hay, also garden prunings are good but be VERY VERY careful that the plants you offer are not poisonous. Avoid grass cuttings from your lawnmower – if a cat has urinated or defaected on the lawn and then the animal eats the grass there is the potential for that animal to contract toxoplasmosis (which all cats carry) and is usually fatal.

What vaccinations/vet care do they require?
We have never had to vaccinate any of our animals for anything, but there will be times when the services of a vet are needed. The most common problems that would be associated with the kangaroos are things like diarrhoea, pneumonia, respiratory infections and mechanical problems (i.e. broken limbs, lacerations etc.).

At what age would it be best to get one?
Unfortunately these are not the type of animal where you just go out and ‘get one’. Most (if not all) of our hand-raised animals have been “rescued” and come from road accidents other unnatural trauma. However, animals that have been bred from these can be sold or purchased provided you have the correct permits. I would NEVER take a healthy animal from out of the pouch just to have a tame animal to sell. The only acceptable reason for doing this is that if there is either something wrong with the young or the mother has a problem. For example, some years ago we acquired an Agile Wallaby this way when an adult female contracted toxoplasmosis and had to be put down but she had a joey in the pouch (which was not affected by the disease). If you acquired an adult animal of any of these species it would be unlikely to be tame.

What kind of person should own these animals?
Someone with a lot of patience, plenty of spare time and has a natural affinity with animals in general. If you are an “animal” person they will respond to you but if you have a short fuse – forget it. These animals do respond well to kindness but not to anger or abuse under which circumstance they are likely to “hit back”. If you are not prepared to commit yourself for the lifespan of the animal then do not take it on in the first place.

If you are going to take on a kangaroo, for example, then you must consider that, should you be likely to move home during their lifespan, you will probably have to leave them behind. Adult kangaroos do not like being moved and as a very general rule, (if you can apply rules to animals, which I am reluctant to do), a high percentage of adult ‘roos that are moved will be dead by the end of the following twelve to eighteen months. Under these circumstances they can suffer from Myopathy which, in layman’s terms, is an extreme form of stress. Basically the animal becomes lethargic, may refuse to eat, it may even go into spasm, but generally becomes tense and unhappy, all of which have the same net effect – death. It is treatable, but success is limited and not guaranteed. The main factor in treatment would be massive doses of vitamin E.