MUSICAL INFLUENCES
Article
Courtesy AllAboutJazz.com
Pat
Martino: To
Renew A Life In Jazz
By
Victor L. Schermer
CAUTION!
This interview may positively change the way you think
about and experience music, yourself, and even your life. You risk
growing and
changing! Pat Martino is not simply a master guitarist and jazz icon.
He is
insistent on being a whole human being, insistent on being himself,
insistent
paradoxically on playing and enjoying life to the fullest. He is also a
deep
thinker who wants to get at the truth in some spiritual sense of what
makes it
all come together in the way that it does. In this interview, he
explains some
of his ideas about musical form and structure (see his website
www.patmartino.com for a fuller exposition with diagrams), about
himself and
his lovely wife Ayako Asahi, his musical influences, his new CD Think
Tank,
and his “take” on spirituality. He also forthrightly discusses the
events surrounding
the aneurysm he suffered in the 1980’s, which left him with nearly
total
amnesia, and from which he made a remarkable recovery for which he
eventually
was honored with the NARAS “Heroes Award” in 2002. He further reveals
another
medical crisis that he endured in the late 1990’s, for which his wife
played a
major role in a second miraculous recovery. This cat has nine lives!
I
interviewed Pat at his home on a sunny autumn day. He
lives in a modest but beautiful row home in the same
I
am honored and pleased to be able to offer this interview
to you, the reader.
Interview Index
The
Guitar
Musical
Influences
Think
Tank
The
Aneurysm
Spirituality
Life
Today
AAJ:
For a
“warmup,” the infamous “desert island” question: If you were going to a
desert
island, which couple of recordings would you bring with you to listen
to?
PM:
I wouldn’t
bring any recordings whatsoever, primarily because I find that
recordings
immobilize the creative process. Recordings are reminders of what was.
I’m more
interested in now.
AAJ:
So, how
would you spend your time there?
PM:
I would
spend my time adjusting to every opportunity that is available for me,
in any
way possible.
AAJ:
So you
would live in the now.
PM:
I must.
THE GUITAR
AAJ:
Let’s
start out with your instrument, the guitar. You are known by guitarists
to use
especially heavy gauges of strings. Some have been critical of that, as
if it’s
an extreme, an eccentricity. What is your rationale for using
especially heavy
guage strings?
PM:
It’s one
of a two-sided coin. Both sides now- it is the necessity of describing
to you a
procedure that is the norm and one that is considered the norm but is
not. The
norm is to adjust to ones incapabilities; the other is not to do so,
but to
flow with ones blessings, no longer seen as incapable, but as a gift in
itself.
I have a tendency with my right hand to abrasively and aggressively
attack, for
the sake of dynamics and for the sake of impact. A long time ago, in my
youth
with Dennis Sandoli, I used to break strings because of that
aggression. He
advised me to begin to practice the technique and to pick lighter than
that,
not to attack so hard, because I was breaking strings- in other words,
he
implied it was a mistake to be this way. I tried that for a brief
period of
time, but what it produced was disappointment. So it dawned on me that
the
easiest way to deal with this was to get a heavier gauged string, as
opposed to
readjusting my own nature. So that’s what I did, and I continued to
replace
what was inefficient with what was sufficient, until finally, the
gauges that
were necessary for my own identity and personality took their place as
tools to
use without altering or injuring my own identity in any way.
AAJ:
You didn’t
have to give up your own attack- the strings served as a resistance.
PM:
Exactly-
which is much more natural than being something you are not.
AAJ:
That’s a
wonderful philosophy.
PM:
It’s just
practicality. I think it leads back to the initial question of what I
would
bring to the island. I contain within myself all that is needed.
There’s
nothing wrong with what I have, therefore everything can adapt to it.
And
accordingly, the study and experience of adaptation itself becomes the
secret
and power of social interaction.
AAJ:
You give
master classes. The late, great trombonist, J.J. Johnson used to
reiterate two
things when giving master classes- and he had an impish sense of humor,
so you
never knew when he was pulling your leg, but he’d say “Practice long
tones” and
“Minimize your body movements.” Now, that seems trivial, but I can see
how
that’s related to his “be-bop” approach: clean, fast, straightforward,
with no
vibrato. So he needed an excellent tone and had to concentrate his
energy. So,
I’m wondering what you want to teach experienced guitarists. What do
you tell
them?
PM:
I try to
activate their interpretation of what they’re witnessing before them,
in terms
of categorization, with regard to their own intentions. If their
intentions are
on the basis of craftsmanship, I direct them to instructors of the
craft. If
their intention is towards accuracy with respect to a broader intake
from their
intentions, their priority, the creative force, then I go into master
classes
to amplify the options and alternatives that are available to them,
from the
simplest point of view. So, since they’re looking for more complexity
in terms
of expansion, growth, and education, I bring before them the necessity
of these
two polarized sides of the same coin, namely their intention, and the
two sides
are its polarity.
AAJ:
That’s the
point- to raise them to another level. How does that come about?
PM:
By showing
them that the secret is that the answers to their questions are in all
things
around them, indeed within the distractions themselves. The only thing
that’s
distracted is their interpretation of what their priority is.
AAJ:
Can you
give an illustration of that?
PM:
They come
to me specifically for the guitar.
AAJ:
Not jazz
as well?
PM:
I would
say jazz as well, but jazz is an invisible coat. It’s a veil of many
substantial considerations. And that veil surrounds the instrument
they’ve
chosen to activate in itself. In the case of the guitar, there are many
ways of
seeing this. And I wouldn’t rule out my opening the I Ching, the book
of
changes, the sixty-four hexagrams, from
AAJ:
That seems
very abstract.
PM:
I can’t
help that. It’s the same as the right hand and the left hand.
AAJ:
Yes, I can
see myself going to
PM:
Again,
we’re thinking about a very simple, basic thing for the guitar, the
mechanism
itself, the blueprint.
AAJ:
Can you
explain that a bit more concretely for us?
PM:
OK, fine.
The skeletal framework for the system of symbols that the I Ching is
based upon
sixty four symbols, and each has six straight lines. There are two
types of
lines, one is whole, the other is broken. Now, the guitar has six
strings. The
broken line stands for a string that isn’t used. Therefore, if the
fifth and
sixth are broken, and the other four are not, wow, that’s the fourth,
third,
second, and first strings of the guitar.
AAJ:
That’s
fingering.
PM:
That’s
string use. And any chord that can be played on those four strings,
that’s what
that symbol represents. And any of the other sixty-three symbols, with
also the
inclusion of the 64th, which is “all strings broken,” and that is just
as
important as any other combination because that’s silence, that’s the
rest.
AAJ:
How does
this help the musician?
PM:
This helps
the guitar player by visually seeing the strings all at once. Without
the
teacher saying, well here’s a chord on this set of strings. This week
memorize
that. Here’s two chords next week for this set. Or how about this: this
semester we’re going to teach you at the university this string group,
and
we’re going to deal with the sixth, the fifth, the fourth, and the
third
strings; the fifth, the fourth, the third, and the second; and the
fourth, the
third, the second, and the first. This is what the university is doing,
but here,
I walk in with the I Ching and say, open it. See this plate here, on
this plate
is every combination of guitar strings! What you’re receiving this
semester is
symbolized here. These represent all that was ever done on this six
string
instrument, all that is being done at the moment, and all that ever
will be
done. Therefore, you’re now seeing a revelation of a symbol that
represents the
inventiveness and the simplicity of the inventor’s method, in other
words, how
certain things remain the same, how the square, if tipped to the side,
has one
of its four points facing upward, you now can see 12 o’clock, 3
o’clock, 6
o’clock, and 9 o’clock. Which is similar to north, east, south, and
west. Which
is similar to spring, summer, fall, and winter. Which is similar to
many other
things that are repetitive replications of inventiveness, in terms of
systematic procedure.
AAJ:
So, you’re
generating a whole new way of seeing the guitar.
PM:
Actually,
I’m generating a much more ancient way. It goes back to sacred
geometry.
AAJ:
The way of
the ancient philosophers? Pythagoras?
PM:
My
interest is not in the philosophy, but in the skeletal frameworks that
always
work. My interest is in geometry primarily because, if you see the
chromatic
scale, you see the 12 tones horizontally, very much like the piano,
which is
based upon addition: seven white keys and five black keys equal twelve.
If you
connect the ends, now you have an infinite circle. And when you see
them that
way, you now have the twelve months, the four seasons. You’re also
seeing the
division of the circle as minor thirds. If you see it as
But
this is very complex. The simplicity of it is to see as
fast and quickly as possible that all is one thing. That the music is
not to be
found in separate parts as a challenge to be memorized, but is to be
seen in
everything, so that there are no distractions from it, no interruptions
in its
holistic nature.
AAJ:
That
sounds almost like a Jungian archetype.
PM:
It is
archetypal, yes.
AAJ:
The “music
of the spheres.”
PM: Very much so. Holst.
MUSICAL INFLUENCES
AAJ:
“The
Planets.” Did you, by the way, study the classical guitar?
PM:
Not at
all.
AAJ:
To change
the subject, which jazz artists have most influenced your musical
development,
especially those with whom you’ve worked most closely?
PM:
When I
think of the guitar, of all the things that symbolize music to me, and
my own
personal relationship with it, the guitar has been more symbolic than
anything
else. It’s led me to different types of music, and because of that,
different
types of individuals who have been effective socially, and their
successful
careers have also affected me in terms of my own decisive standpoint
with
regards to value.
Two
of the most interesting people to me were guitarists.
First, early on, there was Johnny Smith. What I found most interesting
in
Johnny Smith was precision, accuracy. The other was Wes Montgomery, and
what I
found most interesting in Wes was emotional interpretations,
soulfulness, art,
the street, self teaching, the magic of curiosity and its result.
AAJ:
That was
in your youth.
PM:
Yes, at a
very early age.
AAJ:
You had
personal contact with both Smith and Montgomery?
PM:
Yes.
AAJ:
Did Wes
inspire you to go to
PM:
Yes- but
not in the sense of music in a serious context, rather in a sense of
the
childishness and dreamlike tendencies of a juvenile.
AAJ:
That’s
much of what jazz is about.
PM:
I think
so. It’s essential to understand that my first intentions had nothing
to do
with music. My initial intentions had everything to do with interacting
with
adults. I was an only child, having no siblings. The only thing I had
was mom
and dad, and the only thing they had of interest were their siblings,
my aunts
and uncles. When my house was full of a group of individuals, I was the
only
child there. My need was to interact with those adults I could relate
to. When
I couldn’t find that due to culture, my age, the generation gap, I
found that
in
AAJ:
Wait a
minute! You didn’t go to
PM:
Oh, it was
for a musical experience. But it was immediately to the adults. I went
as a
teenager straight to what was happening without the “growing up”
period. I went
to the adults, experienced musicians there, and they became parental
with me.
They took care of me. You have to understand where it came from
initially. It’s
similar to a musicologist transcribing a specific solo. An example
would be
Paul Chambers, on a session that I did in the early seventies, with
Richard
“Groove” Holmes. If the transcriber were to copy Paul’s solo, he would
concern
himself strictly with the music. He couldn’t visualize, since they
weren’t
present, that what he played had much more to do with the instrument
that was
available in the studio, due to the fact that his instrument exploded
coming
from the cold into the studio. His bass blew up in its case! It was in
pieces!
So, the musicologist is describing Paul’s techniques and trying to
understand
musically what he did, when in fact there was an old bass in the corner
with
old strings, and he put new strings on an instrument that had terrible
action
on it. And that’s what caused him to play what he did! So, when we
learn about
the art, and we interpret that as a participant, we sometimes follow
the
“recipe” without the “secrets.”
AAJ:
You’re
looking to find what’s underneath.
PM:
Absolutely. I’m more concerned with reality than I am with a repetitive
basic
formula that will just give a skeletal framework that someone has to
depart
from once it has been established. That’s “education.” It’s a framework
that
has no identity of its own, and it has no meaning of its own. And it’s
the
individual who then departs from that structure, totally familiar with
all its
component parts, and moves outward in a new direction. And that is the
icon,
that’s the innovator.
AAJ:
That
brings me to what I was going to ask you about J.S. Bach. I once had
the
privilege of having a conversation with the great choral director and
Bach
scholar, Helmuth Rilling. I asked him a naïve question, “What is
it that you
see in Bach that was so special for you?” Instantly, without batting an
eye, he
said “The architecture.” I was struck by the power of his conviction
about
that. When I listen to your own music, I also get a feeling of
architecture, of
structure as central.
PM:
Very much
so.
AAJ:
I’m
curious to know if Bach’s music, the baroque way of building structure,
was an
influence for you.
PM:
It’s
difficult to answer that without personal feelings, due to the fact
that I was
listening to the Brandenberg concertos just this morning in the shower!
Over
there (pointing to his record collection), I can see the St. Matthew
Passion.
These things are part of my enjoyment of life itself, so it’s a
continuance of
this architecture that is a part of this every day experience. And as
far as
architecture itself, the skeletal framework of the building itself is
based
upon an invisible format that holds all the parts together. So, it’s
not only
Bach, but it’s everything that everyone has ever done and will ever do.
It’s
all subject to the same architecture. It’s their solid. It’s the spine
of
truth. It’s literally how music really works. It’s why everyone goes to
school,
because they believe in what’s happening. It’s an expansion of that.
The only
thing that I do feel I’m missing from this architecture is once again
going
back to its simplicity, its polarization. Here, I’m touching my
keyboard. It’s
seven plus five. It literally can be seen as seven plus five, the white
and the
black. The guitar doesn’t work that way. But it taught me something
about why
music is taught this way. And it also taught me something about the
individual
and the importance that each one of us has as specialists.
The
specialist is the instrumentalist who has mastered
through dedication on any given instrument. The educational curriculum
is based
on one structure alone: “The Well-Tempered Clavier.” Bach. And there’s
your
architecture that was formulated once and for all, but has nothing to
do with
any of the singular instruments that have their own identity and their
own
temperaments. So in this particular context, I find it extremely
interesting
how at this point of the evolution of social interaction, and jazz
especially
being encased for the sake of improvisation, the sake of spontaneity,
the magic
that comes about from the dimensional expansion of perception itself.
The seven
plus five context, the scale, major, minor, harmonic minor, and all of
its
derivatives with regard to up to 512 different types of scales
worldwide, all
of the exotic forms. Each of these is based upon addition: seven plus
five,
etc. It’s a social language- when in
AAJ:
You want
the master class to discover the essence of the guitar, what it can
generate.
PM:
Exactly.
AAJ:
It also
suggests a method of composing.
PM:
As Villa
Lobos has proven.
AAJ:
Last
night, I heard the pianist Leon Fleisher in recital at the Curtis
Institute. He
played a transcription of the Bach violin partita movement, the
“Chaconne.” He
played a piano transcription, but with great power and control, so it
had the
quality of an organ piece. The point is that Bach’s music is more
readily
transcribed among instruments than some other composers. I suppose that
comes
from the fact that he worked with an underlying set of principles,
rather than
for a specific instrument.
PM:
That’s
interesting. I see a figure, and I see myself walking around that
figure,
seeing it from many different angles.
AAJ:
Like a
hologram.
PM:
Now that
you’ve seen the complexity, it might be worth going back to your
initial
question, so that I could answer it more simplistically, namely, that I
bring
in two things, the augmented three and the diminished four.
AAJ:
I see that
you focus on principles rather than a formula.
PM:
It’s a bit
more logistic than it is theoretical.
AAJ:
Your
website covers this material quite well, with illustrative images. It’s
an
excellent website, very user friendly, accessible. Tell us about the
webmaster.
PM:
His name
is Richard Cann. He has a PhD in music as well as being a
mathematician. He’s
into computers, and has been involved with Black Diamond Systems for
quite some
time. He was one of the first electronic music composers whose work was
recorded. In fact, when the computer was the size of a wall, he was
involved in
electronic music when you could only produce maybe one minute of
electronic
music, after so many days of using the computer! So, he was very
involved at
that early phase, along with Morton Subotnick and others. He’s very
gifted.
AAJ:
The
website gives a listing of your record collection, which sorts out by
type, so
you can view classical, jazz, etc.
PM:
I haven’t
even begun with it! It’s a recent thing. I haven’t begun to insert all
of the
pop and rock music that’s influenced me. I think it’s very valuable for
other
individuals who are curious as to what a certain artist listens to and
what
affects that artist.
AAJ:
I heard a
British music scholar on NPR- his name escapes me- give a wonderful
talk on why
he considers Bob Dylan a great composer. He went into great depth and
detail
about Dylan’s work as an art form. He conveyed a great respect for some
pop
musicians as genuine creators. Now, your record collection is very
eclectic,
classical, jazz, rock. Your classical list includes composers from Bach
and
Mozart, to Takemitsu, Bartok, Rochberg, who taught Uri Caine, Leonard
Bernstein. Some jazz artists are very much into the classical
repertoire, while
others are not. There was a time when a group of them got together in
Gil
Evans’ apartment one night, and he played a recording of Stravinsky’s
Rite of
Spring, which then had a major influence on jazz at that time. Once, in
fact,
Stravinsky came to hear Charlie Parker perform at Birdland…
PM:
Stravinsky
really loved jazz. One of his favorite bassists was Richard Davis.
AAJ:
So,
Stravinsky is sitting ringside, and Parker’s bassist whispers to Bird,
“Hey
man, Igor Stravinsky is in the audience!” Whereupon Parker inserted
parts from
“The Firebird” into his chorus of “Koko.” Stravinsky was totally
surprised and
overjoyed!
PM:
(laughing): That’s great!
AAJ:
So there
is cross-fertilization between classical and jazz. I’m wondering how
that plays
out for you, personally. Which of these composers come into your music?
PM:
Gee, you
know, it’s difficult to be specific, in terms of it being part of the
menu that
I draw from. When I tour, I find that when the engagement is complete,
I find
it difficult to continue in one context. It’s a necessity to retain a
broader
sense of enjoyment of all forms of art, different forms. I enjoy so
many
different kinds of music, different cultures as well. I enjoy Sting, I
enjoy
Earth, Wind, and Fire. I enjoy Elliott Carter. I enjoy so many
different types
of music, because it’s the world that I’m in. And I would find myself
foolish
not to, and almost like a horse with pads on the sides of my eyes.
These
blinders had to be taken off a long time ago for the freedom of
choosing
directions of my own choice. So it is the freedom and the imagination
to be
able to consistently and repetitively to force myself into
confrontation with,
not only the abstract, but to simplify it into dissonance and
consonance. To
have them both stand before me at all times is a necessity. Whether it
be seen
in hip-hop music or in Krizysztof Penderecki makes no difference to me.
It may
seem dissonant in terms of first contact with it. But I need to be
exposed to
dissonance, primarily because the more I’m exposed to it, the more
consonant it
becomes, and the more I’m exposed to consonance, the more dissonant it
becomes,
Due to boredom, it loses its excitement and I get tired of it, and
dissonance
begins to enter. I see how it sculptures itself to the surrounding it
appears
within. And I am no longer so focused on my own intentions that I take
the pads
off my eyes, and I begin to see the intentions of others. And by doing
this, I
participate with others, and I grow from the experience. This to me is
a
necessity, not only to participate in it on both of its sides (its
polarities),
but to be able to witness it from a third point of view, which is
neutral to
either of them, which is honestly the most realistic point of
perceptive value
of them all.
AAJ:
So, you
wouldn’t take some idea from Penderecki and insert it in your playing?
PM: I may, I might. And that may have a great deal to do with the impact of the dynamics of the event in that solo that may literally be a cluster that is put together in such a way that it’s dense, that instead of the standard two-five chord resolution, the two and five are altered in their impact, how long it lasts, the staccato- like BAM!- I might be affected by that. And of course that might take place on a day in which someone inflames me, makes me angry. This has a great deal to do with the reality of music, and so little to do with scales and modes and chords and idioms. It has everything to do with life and the freedom to be able to be able to release the very things that encase us.
THINK TANK
AAJ:
I almost
feel that I’m learning a new way of living and thinking from you.
Getting back
to the music. Your new CD, Think Tank gives a feeling of
continuity, as
if all the tracks form one piece. But I can’t quite put my finger on
what
provides that continuity. I notice that the album cover has an
archetypal form
on it- A Buckminster Fuller geodesic dome, geometric shapes and
connections.
Was it then, truly a “think tank?”
PM:
It was
more of a think tank than ever before, primarily because when this came
up, it
came up prior to a decision about what it was going to be. When
interacting
with, say, a record company, there are feelings that are encompassed in
a
corporate continuity in terms of marketing. The recording should be
connected
to what happened last. If I did a project that was successful in sales,
then
the next one should take advantage of what made it so. However, my
decision to
bring Think Tank about had nothing to do with my last CD, and
because of
that, it created an abrasive static in terms of a decisive direction.
And I had
to give some thought as to how to entice, excite, and bring everyone
else into
it with the same excitement that I had about change in itself. I’ve
always been
excited by change. There’ll always be a meaning to be found in the
midst of it.
So that was the initial ignition. So I thought about Blue Note artists,
about
Joe Lovano and Gonzalo Rubalcaba, and I thought it would be great to
market
this opportunity, to go closer into a collective multiplication. Why
don’t we
include the others’ success as well? Let’s put all of us together and
start
from there. That became a project in itself, in terms of coordinating
itineraries and everything that went with it. Very difficult. Then I
began to think
about the music itself, and the title tune was the first that came
about. I had
a student in 2001, a professional musician. He came in and wanted to
talk about
“Giant Steps.” When I was preparing something for him, I tried to get
him to
transcend just that tune and those changes.
So
here was a student who was interested in “Giant Steps,”
and more than anything, because of what it brought to him regarding
facility,
to be able to move through this quickly- that was the complex. I wanted
the
simple as well. If you ask for the complex, I will give you the
complex, but I
also will give you the simple, primarily because the totality of it has
to be
seen holistically, otherwise you only have half the coin. So I took the
alphabet from A-Z, and I took the Aeolian mode, ABCDEFG, in the C major
scale.
And I took those notes and spanned them from A to Z so that the entire
alphabet
now became that A minor scale. And then I took C-O-L-T-R-A-N-E, AND
C-O-L [Pat
sings the notes] and T-R-A-N-E and then T-E-N-O-R [sings], and there
was “Think
Tank.” There was the alphabet. And an interface of two systems that
transcended
a musicianship, a musical hunger for accomplishment on his behalf.
AAJ:
What’s the
significance of the Phineas part of “Phineas Trane?”
PM:
I was on
an album with Harold Mabern, and Harold wrote that song for Eric
Alexander in
dedication to Phineas Newborn Jr. and John Coltrane.
AAJ:
What is
the significance of the names?
PM:
The proper
pronunciation of Phineas is “FINAS”. It was just Harold’s dedication to
both of
them, naming it the “Finest Trane,” so to speak. I added that to the
album
because primarily it was such a challenge to me to base a song on the
major
scale. The B flat major scale is the bridge. At any rate, Trane
appeared. I
fell in love with the song because I never learned from scales. Just
like Wes
Montgomery, I was primarily self-taught, just from melodies and not
from
scales.
AAJ:
PM:
Absolutely. Quite a number of artists were self taught. But then that
was the
second time Trane appeared. The third time, at the session itself, I
had heard
Christian Mc Bride playing [Pat sings] “
AAJ:
So it
really was a creative “think tank.”
PM:
Yes, it
really was.
AAJ:
So Coltrane
is a common thread. There’s also the thread of bop.
PM:
Yes, hard
bop. And that has to do with Joe Lovano as well as Lewis Nash.
AAJ:
An
incredible collaboration, and letting it all happen that way.
PM: Yes, it was just an amazing thing.
THE ANEURYSM
AAJ:
I think
people would be very interested in your personal life and story, if
they can be
separated from the music, which I don’t think is possible. You’ve been
very
open about the difficult time in your life when you suffered the
aneurysm.
PM:
No more
difficult than now or any other time. No more difficult, no less
enjoyable, two
sides of the same coin.
AAJ:
You don’t
see that time as a crisis in your life?
PM:
There were
crucial moments in it. But in its totality, I can’t see it that way. To
me
that’s very pessimistic. Both optimistic and pessimistic are dangerous.
AAJ:
In
preparing for the interview, I asked myself what I really want to ask
you about
that time, and as we’re talking today, my sense of what I want to ask
are
changing. Indulge me. You may experience some of the questions as
challenging
or over-inquisitive.
PM:
Sure, I’ll
be perfectly honest with you.
AAJ:
As you
know, I’m very interested in neuropsychology. But also, I think we can
all
learn from your experience. I wanted to know about the permanence of
your
amnesia, your memory loss. Did the doctors tell you that you could
recover some
of the memories?
PM:
They told
me that in time, it would slowly but surely come back.
AAJ:
The
memories are all there, but not available to the conscious mind.
PM:
Yeah, they
say the memories are all there, but inaccessible. However, one of the
side
effects is lack of retention, a deficit in short term memory. The
amnesia
revealed itself after the operation. I was told that I recognized no
one, even
my mom and dad. I came back to this house after the operations, and one
thing
that was part of the house was the history of my career. My father had
all of my
guitars, which were returned from
This
continued, and each and every time I opened myself up
to someone like Les, George Benson, Bobby Rose, Franky Day, and so many
others.
All of these people touched upon something in their comments that
caused an
explosive subliminal release inside me that revealed the truth about
something
we had in common. And slowly but surely, piece by piece,
interrelationships
began to revive themselves. But still, I had no interest in music. This
was due
to my father’s respect for me as a jazz artist, I developed an
expectation that
was actually distasteful for me. This was something I was expected to
do by
others, when all I wanted to do was recover- not become something I’m
not.
AAJ:
Your
father really wanted you to take up the guitar again, not so much
yourself.
PM:
Of course.
All the instruments were here. And furthermore, his ritual on Saturday
was to
listen to all my recordings in the house. So he would go to the
basement, turn
on his record player, and I would hear the music coming through the
floors,
which I disliked very much, primarily because at that time, the music
had
nothing to do with me. So this went on and on, until I moved. I went to
AAJ:
These
weren’t musical tours, just trips you took?
PM:
Yes, and I
did consider living in these places. But both times I was called back
home to
be of assistance. My father called and said, “Mom isn’t doing well.”
The second
time he called: “Mom is bedridden now, and I think she’s not going to
be with
us long.” So I came back from
AAJ:
A locked
ward?
PM:
Yes,
because rage was coming out of me. I was enraged- everything had fallen
apart.
I had gone through these things and finally was released. And
procrastination
continued, until the procrastination produced boredom, which in turn
became the
canvas for the decision itself. That’s when something started
happening. I
decided to this for myself.
AAJ:
Without
the sense of what the music might mean to you? Sort of mechanically?
PM:
Mechanically, yes. The psychiatrist at the Institute suggested I get
involved
with a computer. So I got a small Macintosh Apple with the tiny screen,
and in
that 127k system was a music program. And I started playing with that
like a
toy, just like when I was a child, the only difference was mom and dad
no
longer could say, “Stop playing and do your homework!” I’d already done
my
homework. Now I could play. That was the first stage of re-development:
playfulness, where I began to lose myself and lose my depression in
graphic doodles
on this little machine. And when the music program came into it and I
could
take the cursor and weave the arrow of the mouse across the keyboard,
all the
notes would come out and they’d go right on the staff! I was impressed.
I began
to become more and more playful with that stage of playfulness, until
finally I
began to manipulate the notes themselves, in the same playfulness, with
no
responsibilities in terms of a career.
After
I took care of my parents’ estate, I had a decision.
I was going to go back to
AAJ:
That was
prior to the surgery for the aneurysm?
PM:
This was
long before that, when I was getting seizures.
AAJ:
How could
they misdiagnosis this?
PM:
I was
enraged and extremely judgmental about it all. Finally, when I was
given the
diagnosis as a readout from the CT-scan, a joy actually came to me at
that
moment. The joy was because I had endured, and temperance was felt for
the
first time as a virtue. I saw this as a valuable experience, with no
need for
blame anymore, because I knew what it was, and I gained strength at
this point.
This is prior to the surgery and the amnesia. That was forgotten, but
did
release itself in time to come, and I did remember that moment.
So,
it came down to very simple facets that have a great
deal of meaning in terms of recovery from any form of ailment, I would
think,
and I’ve tried to interact with a lot of people about that, in terms of
visiting different hospitals.
AAJ:
As a
result of your experience, what would you like to convey to others have
undergone amnesia, and all those who have suffered trauma in their
lives?
PM:
Well, not
only do you forget all of the things that are supposedly important to
you, but
forget all of the things that are not important to you. So there’s some
irony
in this. You may have what you thought was valuable, but in the process
itself,
you gain so much value, primarily because you are a clean slate, the
board has
been wiped.
AAJ:
Like the
Zen master who raps on your back with the stick?
PM:
Yes, yes,
exactly. And you reach a point where you’re at the beginning. And what
I found
at the beginning was what I wanted at the beginning. I wanted to play
like any
child wants to play. My parents did well: they taught me how to
survive. Now, I
had forgotten how to survive. But all I had done in the process layed
the
framework, the architecture for the stability in my life. That never
went away,
that’s solid. But the one thing I began to treasure was the ability to
be
playful again in a childish way with no interruption from others. And I
gave
more credibility to the child, in terms of childishness itself, and no
longer
worried about my career, or ever reaching a stage where I felt that I
accomplished all that I set out to do. There was nothing to set out to
do. In
fact, everything was right in front of me at all times. There was
nowhere to go
any further. There was nowhere to look back. There was no need to look
back. I
didn’t remember the past. I had no interest in finding something for
the
future. I was more interested in putting an end to the depressive
moment of
right now that was on me so deeply and so intensely. And at that point,
I
started to re-experience jazz at the moment. It happened with the
guitar. It
happened with just about everything.
AAJ:
That’s
very beautiful. One of the top psychiatrists in the trauma field, Dr.
Bessel
van der Kolk, has emphasized the importance of play and playfulness in
recovery
from trauma.
PM:
You can’t
attain that as an “adult”- that’s your childish self, the self that has
been
subdued by our social and cultural demands. The part of you that wants
to ride
that bicycle, and culture will not allow you to do this, because you
have to be
at work at
AAJ:
That’s a
way of saying how much the social neurosis operates in our lives.
PM:
Of course.
When you were born, you were exactly where you were supposed to be and
how you
were supposed to be. Just as you are now. (Chuckles…)
AAJ:
That also
fits with the Zen idea that the true self is beyond words, beyond
memory,
desire, and understanding. There is a self, a being, a presence that
exists
prior to all that. You had a chance to access that self (or non-self,
as some
say) in a very direct way and use it to heal.
PM: Yes. I step back and look at dissonance and consonance, I look at my self, I look at my ego looking at the same central point of value, truthfulness, and purpose. And it’s an amazing experience.
SPIRITUALITY
AAJ:
We’re
getting into the area of spirituality. You’ve praised Coltrane for the
way his
spirituality was present in his music and vice-versa. You seem to have
a
similar kind of striving.
PM:
Very much
so.
AAJ:
Do you
have a specific philosophy, meditative practice, and/or religious
preference?
PM:
I was born
and raised a Roman Catholic. I went to parochial school until tenth
grade, then
to public high school. I then went out to
When
I’m feeling the power of love itself, and I’m feeling
the fulfillment and joy of my own life at that very moment, I’m feeling
what I
refer to as God. I’m feeling what I refer to as love, the love of all
things.
I’m feeling what I refer to as “I Am,” the Name of God, in the biblical
sense.
I’m feeling at that moment that I Am what I want, where I want to be.
When I’m
not in that plane, when I’m humanized, so to speak, then it’s necessary
to use
such words as God. As love. In fact, any words. And these things bring
the
importance to focus on what is most important to me, my true self. Even
though
I may not be able to come into the mess that I’ve created, I must be
Conscious
in the midst of what I’ve created myself.
These
are issues that I see in a more mechanistic context
in terms of the senses. And that’s where spiritualism and religion are
necessities.
AAJ:
To
transcend the senses?
PM:
Yes. This
is really where it’s at. This is what makes it so beautiful and so
joyful. It’s
when this succumbs to other necessities that it is the constant.
AAJ:
So you see
spirituality in life, not so much in a specific set of beliefs or
practices?
PM:
Yes, in
life. It’s similar to “A Course in Miracles.” And that is one of the
sources
that I find extremely applicable whenever I’m blinded.
AAJ:
So you use
“A Course in Miracles?”
PM: I use “A Course in Miracles.” I use the Bible. I use the Koran. I use the I Ching. I use the Kabbalah. I use Annie Besant’s “The Ancient Wisdom.” I use all these things that remind me of the truthfulness of creative mobility.
LIFE TODAY
AAJ:
To lighten
things up a bit, I’ve always wondered whether an accomplished jazz
musician
such as yourself continues to use a daily warmup and practice.
PM:
To some
degree, but it’s extremely important to maintain ones relationship to
ones
favorite toy. And my favorite toy is the guitar. (Chuckles.) And the
joy of it
comes from holding it in my hands, and playing with it and fiddling
with it.
And I need to do that daily. I do that unconsciously. I awaken in the
morning
and have a cup of tea or coffee, and I pick up the guitar, put it on my
lap,
and I just activate it with my hand, just like a boxer who punches a
bag to
keep his muscles up. I do that, sipping on my coffee, while hearing a
word or
two on radio. And it all happens spontaneously.
AAJ:
Do you
know Jimmy Bruno?
PM:
Sure.
Jimmy’s a very close friend.
AAJ:
Do the two
of you ever swap notes?
PM:
No we
haven’t, as much as both of us would like to do. I’m sure we shall at
some
point. We do sometimes share ideas we find exciting. We’re both active
at the
University of the Arts in
AAJ:
Do they
have a guitar department?
PM:
They do,
yes. It’s excellent. Tom Giacabetti, Mike Quaile, and Craig Ebner are
over
there. Quite a number of really great players.
AAJ:
I read
about your lovely Japanese wife, Ayako Asahi, and I saw her at Zanzibar
Blue
when you performed there. Could you talk a bit about your relationship?
Do you
work together?
PM:
We play!
We don’t “work.” We love each other very deeply. We love everything we
do.
We’re together 24 hours a day. The only time we’re not together is when
I’m on
the road, if and when she doesn’t come with me. She is totally involved
in the
continuance of good health. She’s totally involved in growing wheat
grass,
fruits and vegetables. She’s teaching me so much about diet. She’s
teaching me
so much about adapting to something that I would rather not adapt to-
in other
words alleviating habit, confronting dislike itself as a “friend.”
AAJ:
Explain.
PM:
There’s
nothing I’ve disliked more than asparagus (laughter). And eggplant.
(laughter.)
Nowadays, I really enjoy them. I’ve learned to love them. Because, even
though
I said to her, “I don’t like that,” she made it again (more laughter).
And
again after that. And each time she made it, she made it differently
until I
fell in love with it. The Japanese culture is very interesting. So in
that way,
I’ve learned a lot about myself in terms of re-adaptation.
AAJ:
Asparagus
and eggplant. (Extended laughter.)
PM:
And that
applies to so much many things in life. It’s just personality- so
that’s how I
work! I remember I used to eat because there was an emptiness in my
stomach. I
just wanted to fill it up. I used to eat for the taste of it, the
experience of
the senses, not what it did for me. These learnings are what are coming
to me
through the relationship. These adaptations to a longevity, a greater
strength.
I
remember a time when I weighed 86 pounds and they were
going to give me a lung transplant. From pneumonia. I flew in from
Ayako
and I have a fantastic relationship. She’s learned
guitar. She uses the guitar in yogic positions. She uses the guitar to
stretch,
a Gibson L4, a heavy guitar like an ES175. She’ll take it and lie flat
on the
floor on her back, with the guitar on her chest, and she’ll be playing
12 tone
scales across the neck. And she’s doing this to alleviate pain in her
spine
that she suffered as a child when she fell and was injured. Her back
pains
can’t be healed. So instead of prescribed medicines, she’ll pick up the
guitar.
It’s amazing how much we share with each other.
AAJ:
You both
discover new parts of yourself.
PM:
Yes,
that’s great. It’s really healthy. And all of this, in a sense,
protrudes into
the music. Most musicians see a circle around their music. That they
have to
step out of this life into the other. I don’t see that. But I know it’s
there.
I’m forced to have faith that that sort of thing always takes care of
itself,
and that everything turns into music and that one thing helps another.
So it’s
a constant acceptance of everything that happens, and it happens as it
should
happen. It’s a living process. And the reason I describe it that way is
on
account of the categories that these questions have reveled into.
Spiritualism
is another circle. Active living protrudes
itself across that circle. And musicianship. Myself as an “American;”
an
“Italian.” These are all circles of truth. These are all things that I
am. But
life itself protrudes all of these labels and terms. And it’s difficult
to say
what is of any importance other than “now,” and whatever is taking
place is a
different manifestation of the same thing. And there’s a familiarity in
that.
And that’s where the comfort comes from in any form of development.
When I pick
up the instrument I’m comfortable with it. It’s second nature. It’s a
vehicle.
In itself, it’s no longer important at all.
Related Links
Extended Analysis: Think
Tank: How Ideas Become Jazz and Vice-Versa
Live From
Zanzibar
Blue: Pat Martino Quintet
Visit
Pat Martino on the web at www.patmartino.com.