COUNTY COURT, EL PASO COUNTY, STATE OF COLORADO, CASE NO. 97C18494 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- DEPUTY CLERK'S TRANSCRIPT SANDRA KAY WATKINS, Plaintiff, v. GERALD EUGENE WATKINS, Defendant. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- The Permanent Restraining Order hearing in this matter was held on November 11, 1997 and also a hearing on November 19, 1997, before the Honorable Ann MacLaughlin, Judge of the E1 Paso County Court. This transcript if the sworn testimony on November 11, 1997, of Sandra and Gerald Watkins, and of the Ruling by the Court on November 19, 1997. FOR THE PLAINTIFF: Beth McDonough, Attorney at Law FOR THE DEFENDANT: Pro Se Tracy Blea, Deputy Clerk E1 Paso County Court 20 E. Vermijo, Rm. 536 Colorado Springs, CO 80903 2 INDEX PAGE PART ONE OF TRANSCRIPT - HEARING NOVEMBER 10, 1998 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: SANDRA K. WATKINS, Plaintiff DIRECT EXAMINATION BY BETH MCDONOUGH 3 FOR THE DEFENDANT: GERALD WATKINS, Defendant 12 CLOSING ARGUMENT MS. MCDONOUGH 16 MR. WATKINS 16 RULING 19 PART TWO OF TRANSCRIPT - HEARING NOVEMBER 19, 1997 NO TESTIMONY, JUST FINDINGS BY THE COURT 22 DEPUTY CLERK'S CERTIFICATE 26 PAGE 3 PART ONE - HEARING DATED NOVEMBER 10, 1997 1 (The following is the testimony of Sandra Watkins, 2 Plaintiff, after being first duly sworn states as follows) 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS MCDONOUGH 4 Q: Are you married? 5. A: Yes. 6 Q: Are you married to the Defendant? 7. A: Yes. 8 Q: And how long have you been married? 9 A: Six years. 10 Q: Can you tell me about the incident that led 11 for you to seek a restraining order in this case. 12 A: On the night, or the morning of the twenty- 13 ninth 14 Q: Was that in October? 15 A: October, yes ma'am. I got in altercation with 16 my husband, we had been at bar with a friend and we got home 17 and she wanted us to go four-wheeling, and he didn't want to 18 go, so I chose not to also and she soon left after that. 19 Q: About what time was that? 20 A: It was around two, two-thirty something like 21 that. 22 Q: In the afternoon? 23 A: No, in the morning, a.m. She left and I told 24 her to call me when she got home, meanwhile, somebody had 4 1 been brought up, and it started an argument, basically 2 and 3 Q: When you say somebody, what do you mean? 4 A: Andrea Bryant was broughten up. 5 Q: And who's Andrea Bryant? 6 A: Gerald's girlfriend. 7 Q: So you guys got into an argument about Ms. 8 Bryant? 9 A: Yes ma'am. 10 Q: And then what happened? 11 A: Pam called and let me know she made it home 12 and I told her I was upset and I was going to go ahead and 13 go to bed. I laid down on the coach and before I knew it, 14 I had no close on, Gerald was... 15 Q: Can I go back for just a moment. When you 16 laid down on the coach, did you go to sleep? 17 A: I was pretty much out of it, yeah. 18 Q: And when you woke up, what happened? 19 A: I had no clothes on and Gerald had none and he 20 was on top of me and I refused to have sex with my husband 21 and he didn't like that fact and I would say five or so 22 minutes of restraining him back, he jumped up on top of me, 23 started choking me and we got down on the floor, I was 24 halfway on the coach and on the floor and he was still 25 choking me, and I reached back to try to get him to quit, 5 1 and that must be when I scratched him, and I don't know what 2 made him quit, but got up off of me, went and started 3 getting dressed real quick and gathered up the phone bases 4 and phones around the house. 5 Q: What was your impression of him gathering up 6 the phones? 7 A: That he said that if couldn't have sex with 8 me, then nobody else would. 9 . Q: So he gathers up the phones and he gets 10 dressed and then what happened? 11 A: I said I was going to call the cops and he 12 said I wasn't going to call the cops. 13 Q: Did he make any threats to you during this 14 time? 15 A: At that time, he just threw the phones down 16 and he got back up on top of me and started choking me again 17 and basically, it was like, "bitch, you're going to die". 18 Q: He said that to you? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: So he began choking you for the second time 21 A: The second time I really thought that he meant 22 it and I kept holding my finger up, trying to mouth, give me 23 a second, give me a minute, I can't breath and he wouldn't 24 quit, and I could just see things going to black and I was 25 scared and at that moment in time, all I was thinking about 6 was the kids, that I'm not going to die, because I'm not leaving my children with this man. Q: Ok, how many children do you have? A: Two, a four and a six year old. Q: And are they also your husband's children? A: Yes. Q: And were they home (inaudible)? A: No, they were at a friend's house, luckily. Q: When your husband was choking you the second time, where were you, were you on the coach on the floor? A: No, he had drug me basically from where I was left the last time to in front of the T.V. Q: Ok, so was there a point where he stopped choking? A: I don't know what made him stop the second time also, I have not a clue, but he got up and was leaving and I scooted myself, I was trying to gasp for air; and I scooted myself back up against the coach, and I was in and out of consciousness that when I really came to, and I was trying to get the phone, I realized that I had used the bathroom on myself. Q: Did you call the police at that point? A: Yes. Q: Did they come to your place? A: Yes, they did. 7 1 Q: And what happened? A: I was scared that he was going to come back 3 and I thought maybe he might be setting outside watching, sc 4 I really, I kept it real vague to the cops, to the Sheriff's 5 Officers, cause I thought maybe he would come back and if he 6 did, I would end up getting hurt more, so they left and I 7 went ahead and tried to go to sleep on the coach and they 8 came back and they arrested me for Third Degree Assault and 9 took me down, and that's when I let them know what had 10 happened and I got sick down, there at the Sheriff's Office 11 and they had the medic come and check me out and take 12 pictures then too and they 13 Q: Let me go back briefly. When you were 14 arrested for Third Degree Assault, who was the complainant? 15 A: Gerald. Q: And what was his injury? 17 A: The scratch on the neck from me trying to stop 19 him from choking me. 19 Q: Ok, when you went down to the station, when 20 they were booking you, you explained what happened? 21 A: Yes, I let them know in detail what had 22 happened. 23 Q: And they took pictures of you? 24 A: They took picture that's right, after I had 25 gotten sick, they realized the impact of what it had been. 8 Q: Do you have those pictures today? A: No, I don't, the police, or the Sheriff's Office do and we couldn't get them. Q: Was the Third Degree Assault charge from your husband pressed, are, do you have a Court date? A: No, they dismissed it, they realized what it was. Q: Could you tell me about the injuries that you had as a result of this attack? A: Well there's a doctor's affidavit that is going to be pulled that states that it was very life threatening, what he had done to me, I had bruises all over my neck, scratch marks, I had scratches all over my back, I had bruises on my arms and my legs, I had a huge egg on the back of my head, and a cut on my forehead, scrape on my knee, I had to go through a sex kit at the hospital. Q: Was this the first time he (inaudible)? A: No ma'am. Q: Can you tell me about earlier times? A: A friend and I and Gerald, this same friend and I had went to a bar and he had pushed me and I got a severe head concussion. He messed up my left eye, he's broken both of my middle fingers and besides all the mental damage that he's done to me. Q: Does he call you names? 9 A: Oh yeah, I've got it on tape. 2 Q: What kind of names does he call you, go ahead 3 and say it, we've heard it all before. 4 A: He's called me a stupid bitch, a fucken bitch, 5 a moron, a jealous bitch, an asshole a cunt, he's called me 6 a heifer, a fat cow, I mean anything, you just said you 7 heard the, that's flown out of his mouth. 8 Q: How does that make you feel when he does that? 9 A: Bad, he's told me I'm a bad mother and 10 everything, it makes me feel horrible. 11 Q: Has your husband ever been arrested for 12 domestic violence before? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: Was he convicted of those crimes? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: When was that? 17 A: April 3rd of this year, when it happened and 18 his Court date was recent. 19 Q: Do you know if he was sentenced to-do domestic 20 violence classes? 21 A: Yes, and fifteen days in jail. 22 Q: You testified that you have a couple of kids? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: Has your husband ever abused your children? 25 A: Yes. I remember specifically when we lived 10 upstairs in apartment one, he hit the kids to hard with a belt, it was like somebody took a hot curling iron to them; he's called them stupid, he's made them feel bad, my son is very angry right now. Q: How old are you children again? A: My little boy's four and my little girl's six. Q: So do you think you're husband's abuse has effected them? A: Oh yeah, because they've seen him hit me and we've even been (inaudible) by him before and he's like, "no daddy, don't hit mommy or-don't hurt mommy" and he'll start crying and so will my little girl. Q: Has your husband ever abused you and in the process injured your children? A: Yes. Q: Tell me about that. A: If we got in a fight and they've gotten in the way, they got hit, they got sent to his room with a bloody nose and there was blood all over the wall because he wiped his nose and put it on there. Q: Have you called the police about that? A: No, because I was scared to. Q: Have you since contacted any government agency like D.H.S.? A: Yes. 11 Q: What's going on with that? A: They're investigating it, they are opening up the case again. Q: You say again, had you contacted them earlier? A: No, they had been sent out, my sister had called and they had been sent out to look over the house and they had asked us about abuse. Q: How do you feel about your husband being around the kids? A: I don't like it. Q: How come? A: Because the way he's treated them and the way that I see that they act now. It scares me, they're two good little kids and they don't deserve to be treated that way. Q: Are you afraid for their physical safety if they go with their father? A: Oh, yes. Q: If a permanent restraining order is granted, would you be requesting primary care of the children? A: Yes I would. Q: And are you afraid of him? A: Yes I am, I am, in more ways than one. Q: Are you afraid he's going to hurt you if somebody doesn't make him stop? 12 1 A: Yeah, I'm afraid that if that second time, if 2 it wouldn't have quit, that I, I think about, what if I 3 would have died, he could choke somebody and make them pass 4 out, you don't succeed in that point of it and they die, how 5 can you stop that. 6 MS. MCDONOUGH: No further questions your Honor. THE COURT: Cross examination. 8 MR. WATKINS: Nothing that I won't cover in my 9 testimony. 10 THE COURT: Defendant. 11 (The following is the testimony of Gerald Watkins, 12 Defendant, after being first duly sworn, states as follows) 13 DIRECT TESTIMONY OF GERALD WATKINS 14 Clerk: Please state your name. 15 MR. WATKINS: Gerald Watkins. May I just speak? 16 Child Protective Services has came to our house twice and 17 they have not found any signs of child abuse or neglect. 18 The first time my neighbor called, the second time, my 19 wife's sister called out of spite, and if there was child 20 abuse going, I would assume that would have came out then. 21 The only reason that I can think that she's making 22 statements that she is, is because she's talked to an 23 attorney and they've said that this is the best way to go 24 about it. Because everything she's said is wrong. It's a 25 lie. 13 1 First of all, the only reason I took the Alford Plea, 2 by the way, in my previous domestic violence case, which she 3 cried wolf in the first time, just like she is now, is 4 because I didn't have a thousand dollars to defend myself. 5 I didn't have the money for an attorney because she hasn't 6 been working. I've been the sole provider most of this last 7 year. I just took the Alford Plea, I'm assuming you know 8 what an Alford Plea is, that an innocent person can take 9 advantage of a plea bargain, just the same as a guilty 10 person. I did it for financial reasons, she's knows that, 11 the only reason she brought it up is probably under her 12 advise, her attorney's advise. 13 I never hit her in anger, I've never hit the children 14 in anger, there's no danger to her or the children, the 15 incident that brought this about, she was on top of me, I 16 was laying on the pit group and she was laying on top of me, 17 and she made the comment, well, we were actually making out, 18 I thought we were going to have sex, we never got to that 19 point, we were kissing, fondling each other and hugging and 20 she made a comment, oh well, too bad my breasts aren't as 21 big as Andrea's, because she feels that I've had an affair 22 with Andrea. I never really thought that she actually 23 believed it, I thought she just brought it up to have 24 something to argue about. That ruined the mood for me. 25 The next thing I know, she nicked my neck with her 14 1 nails, so I pushed her off of me and left, the next thing I 2 know, I get a phone call from the Sheriff's Department, 3 saying that I had an issue to address. We went down to 4 C.J.C., they booked us both for Third Degree Assault, I did 5 not have you arrested, by the way, either, as soon as I 6 walked up to the Officer, he shined his flashlight on his 7 neck and made a radio call to have you arrested. 8 When we got down to C.J.C., I called, I already made arrangements with my friend Andrea to have me bonded out, 10 because I work, I'm the only one that works, I didn't want 11 to sign a complaint against her because I figured now I'm 12 going to have to pay a thousand dollars for my attorney, I'm going to have to pay a thousand dollars for Sandra's 14 attorney. They told me that it's only going to hurt my case 15 if I don't sign the complaint. They asked me if they could 16 take pictures and I told them no, they came back and asked 17 me again, said that I really needed to have these pictures 18 taken. 19 After she found out that I was being bonded out by 20 Andrea, then the rape came about, if you'll notice on, I 21 don't know if you can get any records from C.J.C. or not, 22 there was no comment made about attempted rape until after 23 Andrea came up. on the, I need to get some paperwork if I 24 may. 25 On the copy I received, that I was served with at 15 1 my work of this petition for a restraining order, 3(A), the 2 most recent incident that caused me to ask for a restraining 3 order occurred on or about 10/29/97, at about 2:30 to 3:00 4 a.m., when the Defendant did the following to me and the 5 above named children. Children stayed at a friend's house 6 overnight, he tried twice to strangle me and drug me around 7 front room floor. 8 What about sexual assault, did she forget when she was 9 filling out this order; and under "C", are you aware of any 10 other restraining orders currently effect either party, no. 11 We both had seventy-two hour restraining orders against us 12 when she filled this out. 13 I'm not going to, I can't believe what's happening, I 14 guess my marriage is over, I, not the attitude that I had 15 when I came in, I'm not going to sit here and ask someone 16 who doesn't want to see me, to see me. I was going to 17 suggest that maybe we could have some sort of mediation for 18 the children's sake, some sort of counseling, without the 19 restraining order, but, apparently not, that's my statement. 20 THE COURT: Cross? 21 MS. MCDONOUGH: No cross. 22 THE COURT: Do you have any other witness or 23 evidence Mr. Watkins? 24 MR. WATKINS: No. 25 THE COURT: Rebuttal? 16 1 MR. WATKINS: May I make a statement. 2 THE COURT: Let, she's going to make her closing 3 first then your closing. 4 CLOSING ARGUMENT 5 MS. MCDONOUGH: Your Honor, it sounds to me that 6 Mr. Watkins might be willing to confess the permanent 7 restraining order, but I'll approach this as if he isn't. 8 These are extremely serious charges, he's been criminal 9 charges with a multitude of violations, and it seems clear 10 from the evidence that there an extreme danger to both Ms. il Watkins and the children if Mr. Watkins is allowed to be 12 around them. 13 Ms. Watkins indicates that she will be filing for a 14 divorce so in the (inaudible) dissolution she would say 15 custody issues can be addressed in that form as opposed to 16 this form. I believe at this point that it would be most 17 prudent for Ms. Watkins and for her safety to let the 18 criminal justice system and the social services system 19 address the portions of this case. We would simply ask that 20 permanent restraining order be issued to protect Ms. Watkins 21 granting her care and control of the children for 120 days, 22 we would request and emergency child support hearing in 23 order to assist her with that kind of control. 24 MR. WATKINS: I don't see any evidence I see 25 hearsay statements, there's no evidence that I'm aware of, 17 to prove any of these allegations. There's a statement made by Sandra, whatever the evidence is that I need to be made aware of, maybe, she said the evidence is so great and the charges so great, that there seems to be immediate danger to my and my children, what evidence. I'm no danger to my children, I have not violated this restraining order in this time, she has twice. She's had someone contact me twice, once to get insurance information for my daughter, who supposedly went to the hospital, but I called the hospital, and there was, they had no records of treating or admitting my daughter, and she has done that before, but she's. played mind games, saying that Orrian's sick, just to get me home. If I'm out shooting pool or out with a friend, "oh, you need to come home quick, Orrian's hurt". I feel that I would be the better parent for this children because of that type of mind game. She told our children, "oh, they are going to have a new mommy now" and she's referring to Andrea. She asked Arriana if she liked Andrea, and when Arriana said that she did, she treated Arriana really crappy the rest of the day. I've taken child psychology and psychology, and I've always had a smile on my face for my kids, I've tried to be the best father that I can. MS. MCDONOUGH: Your Honor, the argument might be 18 (inaudible). THE COURT: You can't put anymore facts into evidence, you just sum up what's gone on here and tell me what it is that you're asking for. MR. WATKINS: Your Honor, I'm upset with my wife for what she did, because I know you have to hear both sides, but from my side of it, she cried wolf and then when she realized that Andrea was involved, she tried to keep me in jail by bringing up these other charges. When I came here, I just thought that maybe she got herself in so far that she had to proceed, and I wanted to let her know that, even though I'm upset with what she did, it's not enough for me to not want to ever see her again. I love my wife and I wish she would reconsider this, but I guess not. I just want to let you know that I'm no danger to my children, I miss them very much and I want to see them and I would ask that you not keep me from my children, I mean, if it has to be supervised, if you feel that's what you have to do, that's fine, I just want to see my babies. I would ask Sandra to reconsider her position and maybe think about some mutual counseling instead of just throwing eight years away. I'm guilty of intolerance to her jealousy, I haven't been very patient with her, I didn't want to hear it, I'd heard it all before and we had arranged 19 1 some marital counseling a while back and I felt that she was 2 one siding the conversation so I walked out and I have 3 regretted that for the last twelve days. 4 I guess what I'm saying is, if I can't keep her from 5 filing for a divorce and going ahead with this, I would ask 6 you not to keep me from my children, and that's all I have 7 to say. RULING THE COURT: Having heard the testimony, based upon 10 that and upon the credibility of the witnesses, the Court 11 finds that it has jurisdiction over the parties and the 12 subject matter of this action. Parties are married, they 13 are both over the age of eighteen, they have two minor 14 children, that there is no divorce filed at this time, that 15 the parties had an incident early morning, October 29th, 16 that during that time, during that incident that there was 17 serious danger to the Plaintiff from the Defendant, there 18 was choking, serious choking and there has been a history of 19 domestic violence, pushing, name calling, so on, as well as 20 the criminal charge. 21 Court finds that the Defendant has committed an act of 22 violence against the Plaintiff and has threatened further 23 violence, that domestic abuse will occur again if not 24 prevented by the order and there is imminent danger to the 25 life or health of the Plaintiff, and the order will enter. 20 1 As to the minor children, who are young, there is 2 apparently a D.S.S. investigation going on, there have been 3 two prior referrals to D.S.S. so I'm not sure what will 4 happen in this one, the allegations of the Defendant that 5 the prior, that at least the sister was a revenge sort of 6 thing;. a neighbor and a relative referral to D . S . S . is a 7 little bit of an alert that there might be some problem 8 there. 9 I'm going to allow some visitation, but it will be only 10 through professional supervisors which the Defendant will 11 have to pay for if he wishes to have such, because I don't 12 want to jeopardize the investigation in any way, but it's 13 just some individual counselors to agree that they would 14 supervise visitation. So, if the Defendant wishes to visit 15 it will have to be arranged through one of these people, 16 they will contact her and set up the appointment, whatever. 17 If there's a child abuse or something filed in the 18 juvenile or the divorce court will take over as far as the 19 children, and supersede these orders on visitation. Right 20 now there is nothing pending, that is why I'm giving you 21 this opportunity to visit with these children only in this 22 safe situation. 23 We'll also set a child support hearing the nineteenth 24 at 3:30 p.m. 25 MR. WATKINS: I work three to eleven. 21 THE COURT: The only days I have are Wednesdays. That's Wednesday, a week from this Wednesday. (child support discussed and date set) 22 PART TWO - HEARING ON NOVEMBER 19,, 1997 THE COURT: Call the case of Sandra Watkins v. Gerald Watkins. Mrs. Watkins, you're attorney has called and said that you alleged to have made certain misrepresentations to the Court. First of all your attorney is not turning on you, she has an ethical legal obligation to do that and so I asked her to bring you over here so that you can tell me what was and wasn't the truth. MRS. WATKINS: Well, basically what Gerald said, start off with, I was really jealous, when I thought he was having an affair on me and I felt that if he got in trouble and taken away from her that they wouldn't be able to do that, so basically, that what I was aiming to do, was to keep them separate. I don't know if that makes sense to you, I'm going to go get counseling starting next week. THE COURT: How did you think that by kicking him out of your house that he'd be... MRS. WATKINS: I thought he was going to go to jail. Basically, she bonded him out on $2,000.00 bond and I don't feel that it's healthy for the kids. THE COURT: So he was having an affair? MRS. WATKINS: I don't know if he's having an affair or not, I felt that, I mean, he's at her house now, but, like I said, what I tried to do, didn't work. THE COURT: You're saying that he did not try to 23 1 strangle you? 2 MRS. WATKINS: He didn't try to do anything to me, 3 and I was the one that mentioned Andrea. 4 THE COURT: That did what? 5 MRS. WATKINS: That mentioned Andrea the night, 6 and he did try to get up off me and I did go after him. 7 THE COURT: But he has been abusive in the past. 8 MRS. WATKINS: He hasn't really been abusive, he's 9 been verbally abusive, but (inaudible) normal. 10 THE COURT: Has he ever punched, kicked, pulled 11 your hair? 12 MRS. WATKINS: He's never done anything to me, 13 he's yelled at me, he's called me stupid. I'm supposed to 14 contact the child protective services too. 15 THE COURT: You realize that you committed purgery 16 probably. That you've taken up the Court's time. Your 17 lawyer, you're a volunteer lawyer on this one? 18 MS. MCDONOUGH: (inaudible response) 19 THE COURT: That's even worse. The Court's time, 20 personally I'm paid to be here, so it's not a big deal, but 21 you used space in the crowded judicial justice system that 22 could be used for other people. 23 I'm personally not going to pursue it on a purgery case 24 or anything like that, this time, but I certainly will 25 remember it and I certainly will if it happens again. You 24 probably lost credibility with the Court, would you legitimately have to do this sometime, you probably raised some real issues about your credibility. MS. MCDONOUGH: (inaudible) Ms. Watkins, she did come forward to me with no urging what-so-ever. She indicated to me that she was pretty ashamed of what she had done and was really feeling quite the guilt, we discussed the legal ramifications of what happened and she had no unwillingness to come forward today, she's investigating avenues for counseling and for some alcohol abuse counseling and I think that she knows that this was not the appropriate thing to do and she is not going to do that kind of stuff in the future, so I understand that the Court is certainly not thrilled with what happened, but we would ask, and also recognize that she did come forward and fess up. THE COURT: For that reason, I'm not going to call in the D.A.s, sheriff's and have you hauled away, but that could be exactly what would happen. If you're raising kids, I didn't want them here to even hear that, certainly don't want to put that on them, lying, especially in Court. What we'll do, is we'll vacate the hearing downstairs, vacate the restraining order and it doesn't mean that you can't, if you need a restraining order in the future, bring it, if I'm the Judge, you might ask for a different Judge. You haven't cried wolf enough that the system still isn't 25 available to you, just make sure you use it appropriately. So, we'll go ahead and vacate the restraining order and vacate the hearing downstairs. MS. MCDONOUGH: Your Honor, Mr. Watkins might want to hear that. THE COURT: Mr. Watkins, based upon certain statements from Sandra Watkins, I'm going to vacate the restraining order and also the hearing downstairs, so the order itself is actually dismissed and there is no further restraining order. DEPUTY CLERK'S CERTIFICATE 26 The above and foregoing is a true transcript of the testimony and proceedings taken in the above-entitled case which was tape recorded in the E1 Paso County Court, at the time and place set forth above. Date this 19th day of March, 1998. , Deputy Clerk