=PVkto136
{START PASS 2}


Verbatim transcription of TO136, distributed by SO Seattle, marked
"Initiation"
I think this was one of the Tape-of-the-Month tapes.
Source not stated.
From text, it was a talk given at a Camp.

Note that in this lecture there's none of that lately socially
fashionable his/her baloney, so that does help date this lecture.
Also it was given before PVK abolished ranks in the SO(W),

I had originally intended only to do excerpts from this tape,
which is something I don't approve of, but now I'm doing a
verbatim -- keeps me off the streets.

N.B.:  The words 'the' and 'a' sound quite similar, and I fear
that I often mistake one for the other.

I will follow this verbatim transcript with a Flying Edit, which
will have filename =pveto136       

As I always say, with the false humility that makes the humbleness
of ordinary folk like Shahabadin arrogrance in contrast -- I mean,
get your ass over to the side of the road Asseasy, here comes a
real Humble Mumbo-Jumbo -- my "Flying Edit is like unto a
professional Edit as is to lunar cartography the memoirs of the
Cow Who Jumped Over the Moon" -- but seriously folks, don't waste
all that hard-earned money from selling 2-franc tapes for 12 on a
professional editor from Harper & Barber Sturgeon , my edits is
better.  Because they're as conservative as can be, I "neither add
nor subtract" like the Good Book says, anything significant, I
merely trims off the fat because we don't each that -- I mean the
'false starts' -- remarks made by PVK but then clearly withdrawn
in favor of a more precise articulation -- and the Hems and Haws,
Klaus and let out the mouse, Klaus.
                   
And then I will append all my notes, 
NOTES ARE APPENDED AS =pvnto136 + =pvmto136
and like I say, maybe I have to write them -- I mean, typists get
bored too, Mu -- but I'm darned if I'll read them , let me
bequeath something to Posterity to do besides putting earings in
their pupiks -- 
So I always say, with false humility -- I mean once at the first
Ruach Camp at the Abode Campground I saw R. Shlomo present "my
humble business card" -- but he always stayed in a Hotel with an
indoor privy, and a swimming pool too may the British never forget
the distinction -- like I've said in a poem, Dafna, who was crazy
in the best of times, used to swim laps on Shlomo's credit card in
the swimming pool at the Jerusalem Ramada -- Dafna said, Shlomo is
very good to his chevre -- I mean, after a few minutes listening
to Dafna explain how she had just made Lieutenant General and
wanted somebody, anyone, to knock her up, the Chief Rabbinute
Trouble-Shooter might decide not to invite R. Shlomo for tea after
all -- though Ch. R. Lau gave a most noble hesped for him -- 

So what I'm getting around to saying is, I always say, you should
disregard my notes, but truth to tell for a moment, there is lots
of good stuff in them -- recollections of related remarks made by
R. Shlomo -- and I think I've probably recolleced them quite
accurately --                                                

So you'll have to shovel away the shtuyot to get at them --
"saphires and garlic embedded in the mud" said T.S. Eliot, but
what does an arriviste Amglophile -- " a man on whom self-
assurance sits like a silk hat on a Bradford millionaire" -- know
of the true value of garlic, doubtless he died with a ring on his
hand and a mouthful of treacle 
But I digress.
If Honest George offered anything besides rubber croissantes for
breakfast -- }

---------------------------------------------------------------

(The grey wolf just walked past my window -- he survived those
idiot hunters in their Davy Crocket hats with their inlaid wood
bows and imitation Indian quivers of arrows with plastic
feathers.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

{START TAPE TO136 SIDE A {000}}

Now -- 
Today I wanted to speak about an aspect of Murshid which is very
important to many of us because as you know the path that we are
following is the initiatic path.

In the traditions of the past it's always been, one has had access
to it through what is called 'initiation'.  And much as we're
living at a time when people would like to do away with these old
traditions, we -- it's necessary for us to understand what is the
reason for them and then we can 'flow with it' much more easily.

Well -- 
Hazrat Inayat Khan defines 'initiation' as taking the plunge into
something that one doesn't know, but one just has a hunch that
that is the way that one is supposed to go.

So -- 
You see, one can only learn something if one is prepared to adopt
another point of view to the one one has been adopting so far.
In a sense it's a kind of trust.  And I think the best way of
explaining it, I think, or the best simplification of it is --
climbing the mountains with a guide.  

Now -- 
One chooses a guide because one is made to understand that that
guide knows the landscape better than one does oneself.

So -- 
That itself is a kind of a trust that you give to the guide.  
Now --
On the spiritual path it's a little bit more complex.
(ni-1}


But the guide has to make you gain confidence in his -- his
knowlege. Like, ah -- - 

[An infant is quietly babbling in the background.  PVK remarks:

I'm sorry, no children here.
(ni-2)

That's -- the -- 
It's the rule of the game.  So the teacher musn't assume that
people are just going to follow him because he's supposed to be a
teacher.  He has to prove that he knows the wsy of the land -- lie
of the land -- and the more the pupil is able to trust him, the
more he is able to get the pupil to do things or to think things
which he wouldn't have been able to trust himself to do if he
hadn't gained confidence in him.

It's like for example the guide will tell you -- all right, now
you just -- you're hanging onto a rock you see -- you've got your
fingers on one ledge, of your right hand, and you've got the
fingers of your left hand on another ledge, and you've got your
toe just hanging on to a bit of a ledge there, and your right leg
is swinging somewhere in the void, and then he says , Now you leg
go of your left hand, and you just swing your arm over to the next
ledge.

Now you'd never do it -- never.  In a thousand years.  But -- well
-- he tells you to do it, right.  And -- tthe reason why you do it
is because you know -- you have gained trust that he knows what
he's doing and so its -- you'd be able to do it -- he wouldn't ask
you to do it unless he thought you were able to do it.  
That's the kind of trust that the spiritual path involves. 
Because otherwise one would never trust oneself to get into that -
- to -- for example, to come to realize thhe Divine Nature in one's
-- I mean, everything in one's life tends  to draw one into one's
personal consciousness, it takes a lot of trust to be able to
trust oneself to be what one really is.  It's -- actually one can
do it, but one doesn't know that one can do it.  Or one knows it,
but one doesn't know that one knows it.  And that's what the
teacher has to do.

According to the Sufis, we are pilgrims, SALIQ, pilgrim, 
{TO136 SIDE A 050}
on a path, and each one is in a certain place on that path, in a
certain station, they call it, MAQAM , a certain station.  And
that means that up to the present, that's as much as he sees, or
he is able to overcome -- let's say the amount of ascendenscy that
he has over himself, his realization, the quality of his emotions,
the values that he attatches to things in life -- those determine
the place that each person is in life, at a certain moment.

And the reason why we're not further than we are is because we
don't see the next step.  
{ni-3}

And this can go on just eternally XXX 
So the reason why we take -- we follow the initiatic path -- is
because we hope that our initiator will show us the next step.
Now of course there's an unknown factor there.  Like, once's hunch
-- I said, one has a hunch that this is thhe path that I want  to
follow -- and I needn't say that a lot of people have followed a
path, or followed a guru, and been disappointed.  And sometimes
it's not due to the fact that the teacher wasn't a good teacher --
but maybe he wasn't the teacher for them.
Sometimes of course it IS because the  -- well -- how authentic IS
a teacher.  It's -- everyone wants to be a teacher.   I mean, lots
of people want to be teachers.  

But -- 
It's a tremendous responsibility to take upon oneself the well-
being of -- the spiritual well-being of people.  

It's been my main concern, particularly when I was younger, to
really come across -- well, wonderful beings -- rishi's and
dervishes and so on, what they call the guru hunt.  I spent many
of my -- many months, and perhaps even years, visiting all the
teachers of our time, just like Hazrat Inayat Khan did when he was
young.  Buddha also, he said -- don't just -- he ?even? visited
all the teachers of his time.  He tried out the different ways.

In my case it could be accounted for, I'm sure there are
psychiatrists here who would say well, it's because my father died
when I was 10, I was looking for my father again in someone else,
and so on.  But the fact is that in every being there is a kind of
longing to find a being who represents a kind of ideal that is a
tangible ideal. Because the teaching, the theoretical teaching, is
-- is not altogether satisfactory.  And thhat's the reason why --
you know, I remember once when I was giving instructions in
meditation and someone said, Well, Pir Vilayat, when you are
meditating with us, then of course it's wonderful, and we get into
it, but when you're just giving the instructions, we can't do it. 
And I thought, there you go again, they want a guru.  And I want
them to be free from me, so that -- I ?decided? ja, in those days,
that the real guru should withdraw and not -- you know, not put
himself forward, and just make people free, because I've seen so
much harm done by guru's who hold people under subjection by their
will.  And how can a person attain the fulfillment of their being
if they're not free.
{TAPE 136 SIDE A {100}
{ni-4}


And so -- I thought I'd given a good answer.  That's what I said. 
And the next morning when I meditated I realized that -- well,
first of all, I had a very bad night -- and next morning I
realized that in fact one has to accept to -- to become an
instrument that is helpful to human beings in their unfoldment --
because indeed, if I were to meditate on the strength of the
instructions that I give, I would never be able to meditate.  If
I'm able to meditate at all it is because of the particular
charisma, or the particular [?felicity? or ?let' say?] the
attunement of conciousness that has been transmitted to me through
the wonderful beings with whom I have meditated and particularly
of course the being of Hazrat Inayat Khan, who is always present
somewhere in my soul.  

And so I realized that whst people need most is this -- human
example -- or let's say, the transmission of something personal,
like the emotion that is carried by a human being and that is --
it ignites the -- the soul of the people who come in contact.  And
we find that.  I'm sure that we find that at this Camp, when 
we're all together in the mediation, and its wonderful because
we're sharing in something that is communicated.  And when I just
give instructions I realize that people start getting a bit bored.

I always say, well, its seeing in another oneself all those things
that are in oneself -- but  one hasn't been able to express them
yet, or they haven't come out -- they X -- one hasn't been able to
manifest them yet.  And so one is longing to see it -- "to see
oneself in another onself."

[I have put that phrase in quotes because I often heard PVK say
it, usually as the answer he might have given to the rishi who
asked him, "why have you come so far to see what you should be". 
But for all I know, maybe this tape records the first time PVK
used (and so, coined) tht phrase. ]

And so the consequence is that one is alwaqs seeking the teacher
who has some affinity with oneself.
{ni-5}

I notice that over and over again.  And the people who don't have
enough affinity -- they might think they have, but there comes a
time when they realize that they don't have an affinity with me in
this particular case and so then they leave and look for some
other teacher.
{ni-6}

Now -- 
Every teacher has something to give.
{ni-7}

But when I was, as I say, on a guru hunt, looking for rishis and
dervishes and monks, and holy men, -- there was one criterion that
always guided me.  And it's the surest one.  And that was if,
after seeing a guru or rishi or whoever it was I felt like dancing
in the air and bubbling over with joy and energy and I was set
free and illuminated and purified and so on -- well, that was a
criterion that he was a real teacher.  

But I came across some beings who had a tremendous power, they sat
there 

[ PVK somehow evokes in his tone the sense of a being of great
power, sort of a cross between the Buddha and lion who is still
waiting with waning politeness for the entree to be served ]

and everybody bowed before them and so on.  And somehow I always
saw behind the sham of it all.  It always -- I could see that it
was a show.

Now the thing that -- the criterion there was the ego.  A person
can have a very imposing personality, but have a very strong ego. 
And it's strange, but a lot of people just don't see it.  Don't
see it XX -- it's funny, but one has a blind spot in one's eye.

Now -- I don't mean to say that the teacher should be wishy_washy. 
On the contrary, some of these dervishes were extremely powerful. 
?I had? no idea about the power that was coming from their being. 
But it was completely impersonal, it was the Divine power.
{TAPE TO136, SIDE A, {150}}
{ni-8}

Now [or: And] I've never known anybody as powerful as Hazrat
Inayat Khan.  Never, I must say.  With all of my journeying and
travelling and so on. I've come -- I've seen rishis in caves ?who?
nobody has seen for 10 years and I've seen some of the hermits in
Mt. Athos in Greece who were living in a little -- under sort of,
the trunk of a tree or something like that.  I've seen -- well --
hundreds of gurus, or hermits, or rishis and so on, but I never
have come across anybody like Hazrat Inayat Khan, never.  

But what I'm trying to say is that one of the criterions is -- if
the power that is coming through is ego power, personal power --
or if it is the Divine power.  And the Divine power comes through
when the consciousness of the rishi has been attuned very very
high.  And so he's drawing his energy from the source of all
energy. And if not -- well then you see that kind of very personal
will, and a very imposing personality, who a lot of people are
impressed by.  

And the reason why a lot of people are impressed by that type of
guru is that they lack self-confidence, and the guru's self-
confidence is likely to give them self-confidence.  And that's why
they're there.

 
So everyone is drawn by the guru who has an affinity with him.  Up
to a certain point.  Some more, some less, and sometimes I feel
that some of the people who are drawn to what I have to give seem
to belong to a kind of spiritual family.  A family feeling.  It's
a little bit like what Sweedenbourg says when he says that the
people who are having a certain affinity in the angelic planes
tend to live together in the villages -- those who have a certain
affinity.  And so each village has its kind of idiosyncracy.
{ni-9}

{PVK often used to say, you get the teacher that you deserve.}

                   
Something like that.

Now the real guru then has to make the pupil aware of what is in
him, and also bring him to an outlook which is beyond the outlook
that he has so far.

And of course it is true to say that one of the most essential
aspects of the transformation takes place in the ego of the pupil. 
For the pupil to beccome this egoless powerful being that is let's
say the end objective, of course he's -- his ego has to be tackled
with.
{ni-10}

And the guru with a strong ego will kind of batter the ego of his
pupil ny his ego.  And it's possible that some people need that
kind of battering.  

This is what is called 'submission' which is of course one of the
most -- difficult things for people to do.  Hazrat Inayat Khan
says:  "All submit to love willingly, and to power unwillingly."

[ HIK Collected Sayings (Omega 1991) verse 332 (Gayan: Chalas): 
"All surrender to beauty willingly and to power unwillingly."]
{TAPE 136 SIDE A {200}} 


But anyway -- 
The problem arises when -- well, as I said yesterday, when the
child wants to do something and his parents feel that it isn't
good for him and he -- it involves his ego -- like he wants to do
it.  And so there's a kind of tension between the guru and the
pupil.  Murshid says, the question is how far you can allow that
thin thread to become -- to be pulled, you see.  You can get to a
point when the -- well, the pupil just says well -- the pupil's
ego is there of course, and, I mean he has an ego of course --
perhaps the teacher has some ego, maybe he doesn't have an ego, or
not much ego, but still -- there comes a time when the pupil ---- 
Well -- cannot take the leadership that is given to him, cannot
take the lead that's given to him.  That's where the conflict
arises.  And sometimes it's because the -- of course the teacher
has to see just how far he can -- he can let that thread be pulled
-- like -- it's -- after all it's -- the tteacher is giving a
direction to the pupil, and the pupil wants to go in another
direction, ?after all?, he has his own free will.  And we don't
want to kill -- the teacher must not kill the free-will of a
person but -- if he wants to learn, then he has to some extent to
fit in with the -- the trend -- it's a very delicate balance. 
{ni-10a}

It's just the same kind of thing that you experience with your
children.  As I said yesterday, it's your love for your children
which will enable you to -- and if they feel your love, which will
enable you to -  impose a certain discipline upon them, but if
that link isn't strong enough then they will start -- disliking
you, or disobeying, and just then -- there'll be a breakdown of
communication.
{ni-11}

              
The only thing of course that will enable the pupil to overcome
his way of wishing, or his way of thinking -- or even his way of
feeling -- is because he has the kind of intuition that the way
that the teacher is trying to show is -- is right.  Or is good.
And it's difficult for him -- sometimes it's difficult.  Because
one sees things as one sees them.  According to one's vantage
point.  And as I say it's no use simply just giving up one's
vantage point and following blindly the vantage -- the way of
another person.  It doesn't do it for you.
{ni-12}


You have to cope with your vantage point, you can't just put it
aside.  Because then you're cutting out something that is very
real in your life.   And the guru can't do that, he's not supposed
to do it.  Many do, but he's not supposed to do it.

[At this point one needs to know the date of this teaching, and
make some guess at which gurus PVK had in mind, even tho PVK once
said, a teacher should not criticize another teacher.]
{ni-13}


So it's a very -- very subtle relationship.
[TAPE TO136 SIDE A {250}

It's true that there are certain moments when the -- the alpine
guide will say to his pupil, No, don't do that.  That -- you know,
there are sort of certain emergency cases.  And the same thing
happens to your child.  And you say, No, no.  ?What do they want
you to? -- You say, No, I absolutely forbid you to do that. 
Because then -- there's danger.  And that's the only case. 
Otherwise you let your child -- let's say, step in the water, and
get wet -- and well, it's a nuisance for you, but still -- he'll
learn, eventually -- hopefully -- 
{ni-14}


but when it comes to setting the house on fire, then you think
?Ooops? -- ?So? there's a limit there, somewhere.

Now of course behind this all there's something very very deep
which is this -- the pupil is really part of the consciousness of
the teacher.  That's the most sacred aspect of this whole thing.
Now it's true, that that happens to all human beings, that the
poeple we love are part of ourselves.  We carry them within
ourselves, and sometimes we speak like them or think like them. 
And if that is true of ordinary relationships, it's even more true
of the pupil and the teacher.  And that's why in the East they say
that the pupil is like a grain of sand in the oyster, and the
oyster transforms that grain of sand into a pearl.
{ni-15}


So there's an involvement, let's say.  And -- Hazrat Inayat Khan
says -- in his instructions to leaders he says:  The most
important thing in your life is your concern for your pupils. 
That's the most important thing.  That comes first.
{ni-16}


So the -- the whole -- He said, the teacher is there for his
pupils.  That's what he's there for.  
{ni-17}

			

So that's your main concern -- I mean the main concern of all
teachers, of course -- is -- to be continually working with his
pupils -- on the higher planes.  That is, he may not have seen
them for -- many [I mis-heard this on Pass 1 as 'three' not
'many'] months of so -- 
{ni-18}
{My (sa='Steve Amdur') Footnotes ni-18 rests on my mis-hearing
'many' as 'three'.  Well, mutuis mutandis as we understands. } 


{ni-18}
{And so, following the Jewish principles for reading text to
extract clues toward what do do, we learn from this remark that a
pupil should try to touch base with his/her teacher at least once
every 3 months.}

but he has been thinking of them -- or -- the best, of course --
what we do is actually to -- think of each one of our pupils in
turn, during -- in their [sic, but surely 'the'] morning
meditation.  I [or: So you] can imagine how many that is in my
case.  And that's why I have asked to have photographs of the
pupils -- of the mureeds -- in a little -- like a passport-photo
size -- some people send big photos in frames, and it's the whole
family, and things like that -- I can't carry all of that around -
- some -- but -- just a little passport phhoto with the name
behind, and your wazifa, so that I know how to -- well, of course,
some of you are very clear for me, others less.  And I go by
Cemters.  So -- New York, San Francisco, ?Tahee? Center.  So I
like to have them all on one page -- like in a ?cardboard? page,
or in a plastic cover -- and then I just -- glance in it --.   It
happens, one gets in such a habit of being continually conscious
of people that one picks up their vibrations.  One establishes a
real live contact.  

And then of course when I see you again you know that I've been
thinking of you.  Something happens, it's like a fantastic click
takes place
{TAPE TO136 SIDE A {300}
        
So it isn't just a matter of the teaching that is given, although
{ni-19}
need I say just how it can alter one's whole way of thinking and
of doing of experiencing, of living.  But there's a work that
takes place on the higher planes.  One can talk of the Presence
rather than the Manifestation -- I was talking about that
yesterday when I was speaking about Sufism.  

I think the best example of it is the case of the teacher of the
teacher of Hazrat Inayat Khan.  
I've told this story before, but there are some people who may not
have heard it before. 

He was a very brilliant scholar, an Arab who had been invited by
the NIYAM OF HYDRABAD  .  And as usual, on Thursday evening, they
have the Sama, the Zikr, and he was sitting there, and there was a
dervish who kept on looking at him.  Staring at him.  And he kept
on looking away, and the dervish kept on staring at him.  Why --
why is he staring at me like that.

And afterwards the dervish came up to him and said, I -- I have
instructions to initiate you.    And he said, No, I'm going to be
-- I'm just on visit here, I'm going to bee initiated by the
murshid of my father, in Arabia, in the Hajaz.  And he said, Well,
I definitely have instructions to initiate you.  He said, No, I
don't want to be initiated, I want to be initiated by the father
of my -- [ mis-speak, withdrawn, for 'teacher of my father']

And so the -- that night he dreamt that his -- Murshid of his
father told him that he should be initiated by that dervish.

And the dervish -- and the next morning the dervish knocked at the
door and said, I've come to initiate you.  And he said, But I told
you that I didn't want to be initiated by you.  He said, Have
youforgotten your dream XX ?so soon? -- [as I recall, 'so soon'
occurs in other tellings of this story.]

And -- so -- 
It was very difficult to let himself be initiated by him, because
he was a scruffy old dervish -- and -- didn't even speak
coherently and -- he himself, of course, ABU HASHIM ADONI was a
very ditinguished scholar, and very elegant, and -- so  
{ni-20}                                                 
He kept on -- he had all these questions he kept on asking him,
and the dervish wasn't able to answer his questions, so he thought
well, what kind of a pupil have I got -- what kind of a teacher
have I gotten myself stuck with now.     
And that night the dervish came into -- every night of course they
repeat the zikr, and while he was repeating the zikr the dervish
came into the room and he said, I AM the answer to your question. 


I think that's the most typical story that I've ever heard,
because that is the real way of initiation.  There's something
that can be given by the teaching, but it is the sort of
communication of truth by the being rather than by whatever can be
learned.

And then of course he fell at his feet and realized that he was 
indeed his -- his guru.
{ni-22}
{ni-23}

So as I say, it's only the being of the teacher -- and it's really
the being of G_d manifesting of course through the teacher -- that
is powerful enough to make the pupil accept to forego things he
wants to do or things he thinks or things he feels -- in other
words, it's only -- it takes a very strong jolt to get one out of
one's -- vantage point, that's the world I'm using all the time --

And that's the link.

It's the link of being.
And in that sense of course the teacher himself is not alone of
course -- he is linked with his teacher, and of course through his
teacher to the teacher before him and so and so forth, so he's
linked to a whole chain of teachers, and through that chain to the
teachers of other initiatic schools, so in the end one can say
that he is linked to the hierarchy of all the masters saints and
prophets of all times.   

Now -- of course each teacher has his own teaching, because he is
a -- each one is unique -- each human being is unique in his  way,
and let's say presents the Divine Being in a particular form.

And of course it's a pity if the teacher simply brings you into
his own trip, like there's a -- you may -- your needs may not be
completely ?answered? by the particular trip of your teacher.  And
that's the thing that I keep on apologizing about, like I say,
well you know I -- I'm in this new maquam now and well -- that's -
- what I can talk about convincingly is soomething that I'm
experiencing deeply, and it may not be the maquam in which you are
at the particular moment.  
{ni-23a}

On the other hand, sometimes I feel that, well -- the people who
come at a particular moment are attracted by the maqam in which I
happen to be at the time -- it happens -- I don't know how things
work out, there's a fantastic computer behind everything, 
[ni-23b}

but -- people just come at the right time when they find that I am
in a state of consciousness that they -- that is in consonance
with their being.

Well what I'm trying to say is that -- the teachers has to --
well, will of course of necessity be presenting the teachings in
his way, but on the other hand, by the fact that he is in contact
with all the masters saints and prophets, must also bring the
teaching of all of the teachers.  He would be llmiting you by
imposing upon you his particular way of thinking.  
{TAPE TO136 SIDE A {400} }


And so he has to be both, let's say, authentic in his own way, and
also all-comprehensive.  Let's say wholistic, as we say.  He has
to be both.

And this is done by the fact that he is supposed to be continually
-- picking up, let's say, connections withh all the masters -- and
it starts with those who are closest to him, like in my case
Hazrat Inayat Khan for example, and then those of the Chisti
order, and then those of the Sufi Order, generally, and then from
there on to the teachers of all the different religions, and so
on.  And that's the reason why you find sometimes that I speak
about -- well , I give my own teaching sometimes, I talk about
Hazrat Inayat Khan's teaching sometimes, I talk about the Sufi's,
and sometimes I talk about something -- another esoteric school,
like for example -- this afternoon I'll be talking about the Greek
Mysteries. 
{ni-24} 

Now that's -- the teacher is in other words linked up, he is part
of the whole hierarchy.  And initiation is not just initiation to
him, as a person, or linking yourself up to him as your guru, but
it is linking up with the whole hierarchy.  He is the connection,
let's say, in the network.  Or -- sometimes they call it a chain.

But -- it isn't true to say that you can't by-pass him -- like for
example --  you know, in the -- in an initiation [sic, but I think
mis-speak for 'organization'] you have to go thorugh your Chief,
 
[ 'Chief' is the European word for 'boss', or more precisely,
one's supervisor at work -- tho I reckon all this is more true of
Europe than the USA, and more true of the military and maybe the
Bushie Insurgency than of any business that ain't gone bust yet]

and then he can pass the matter up higher if he feels like it, but
you can't by-pass him.  

    
Well, that is not so in the spiritual field, you can have direct
communication with a teacher higher up in the hieracrchy -- you
can reach for example Hazrat Inayat Khan without having to you
know to go through your teacher, or you can reach into some --
consciousness of some being, like a great Sufi, like al-Hallaj, or
Buddha -- I mean a great teacher like Buddha -- it doesn't matter. 
But you -- what I mean to say, it's not like -- you're not limited
by the initiation to a particular teacher and its also -- and I
also mean by that that -- at least in the Sufi Order we do not
consider the link of initiation to be quite the same as in the
guru-chela relationship.

[N.B.:  It is KIT 31 (not KIT 33 as I note earlier in this doc)
that is "The Guru Syndrome" and that is inserted by the SO
Suresenes as a preface to a booklet of KITs 61--72. 
That was PVKs first move to state emphatically that his role was
not that of a guru.] 

The guru is like -- supposed to be just your teacher and you're
connected up with him almost to the exclusion of the whole
hierarchy -- you have to pass through him.  No.  In our -- and the
reason is that we are not just an esoteric school.  In the
esoteric school  -- the whole esoteric school is always --
revolves around a [single] teacher, a [single] guru.  Whereas an
Order like -- well, what we mean by The Message is more than an
esoteric school.  The Message of our Time is extremely broad.
And it encompasses the Masters, and teachers and Prophets of all
times.  That is what's happening in our times, it's the New Age.

Now that doesn't mean of course that one can simply just go and
take practices from all teachers.  Because -- simply because --
well, as you know, doctors don't like you to take medicines from
different doctors.  It's not just that they don't like it, but it
could be very damaging to you, that's why they don't like it.

And a lot of people get kind of mixed up.  Like they go to one
teacher, and then another, and another, and they -- you don't see
why they couldn't just take initiation with all these teachers,
because they think that blessings accumulate -- like the more
blessings you have the more -- the more better-endowed you are.
{ni-25} 

Well, one can commune very deeply with all the -- genuine --
spiritual beings, and even meditate with them if they will allow
one to -- but all genuine teachers will always ensure before you
take initiation with them that you are not following the practices
of another teacher, because it would be confusing for you, and
maybe harmful for you.
{ni-26}  

There are different ways of dealing with a problem sometimes.  You
can see that in aircraft construction for example,  There are
different theories, you know, about whether it's better to have --
high wings or low wings, or 3 engines, or whatever -- there are
different ways of approaching a problem.  And so in the same way
there are different ways of -- each teacher has his method -- and
this -- how can he carry through his method if you mix up whatever
he's teaching with what you get from somebody else.

Now if he himself finds a synthesis, like for example sometimes I
speak about Buddhism and so on, and it seems very different from
the way of the Sufis, but somehow I try to show how it all
dovetails.  Well that's all right, because it's -- the synthesis
comes through me and I can even sometimes give pupils Buddhist
practices, Buddhist meditations to do.  But it's not the same
thing as if you went and took Buddhist -- did Buddhist meditations
with a Buddhist teacher, and so on.
{TAPE to136 SIDE A {500}} 
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/in the sense that, for example, one may be practicing yoga, and
at the same time you would be practiciing some of the practices
given by the Sufis -- but what is meant by yoga -- for most
people, is hatha yoga -- which is always good, it can't do any
harm.
If you start doing a heavy kundalini program, then I would say --
well, then, it 's better that you do it, you follow the teacher
who's teaching you kundalini, and do it really properly, rather
than mixing it up with the wazifas, or the zikr, which might take
you in a different direction.
{ni-27}			
{ni-28}

{ni-27}
{And as I may of remarked -- PVK once said, sometimes people just
drop out of the SO without telling me, and that is -- not good, I
think he said.} 


Now I do teach kundali, but the way I teach it is completely --
can very well be reconciled with the zikr or with other things.
{ni-28} 

Now -- behind it all there's something which -- doesn't seem to
make the same sense nowadays as it used to make -- that word
'loyalty' --
{ni-29} 

It's -- well, it's a very deep connection -- it's -- like you have
a choice -- Hazrat -- we are living at a time when people don't
like to be bound, like for example they don't like to -- they
think that taking initiation to one school -- it's like a
limitation, like they're bound to a particular school, like being
closed in a little box here somewhere 
{ni-30}                          
{TAPE TO136 SIDE B {050}}

And Hazrat Inayat Khan once said -- Initiation is really the
freedom -- you are affirming your freedom by binding yourself to a
certain school.  You have chosen that school.  There's a choice.

Now, you may change.  You may find that this is not what you're
really looking for.  Maybe you were mistaken in your judgement at
first, or maybe you've changed.  And as you change, this school
may not be the right one for you.  And that is where we have
freedom of course, to move from one school to another.  One isn't
bound for life.  Although in the East one is.  But -- here one
isn't.

In the East, once you have been part of a school you can't --
generally, maybe things are changing a little bit now, but in the
old days one couldn't just change over from one school to another.

Now it is possible that a guru might send you -- your guru might
send you to another guru -- that can happen.  But you don't go to
your guru and say, Well, I've had enough of you, now I want to
find some other guru.   

Now -- Of course my experience here in the West, is of course that
some people don't even have the courtesy to tell you that they're
going to another school, they're just simply -- you don't hear of
them any more.  And you still have them on your list.  

Now -- So that's what is the minimum sort of courtesy that is
required of the mureeds, is to make us know whether they still
wish to be linked up.

Now it is true to say the initiatic link, once its been
established, can never be broken totally.  Like one can go to
another guru, and take teachings from that guru, but -- it's a
little bit like, once you've loved someone, and that person may go
and marry someone else, but -- you can't all of a sudden stop
loving that person -- a link is there.

And in this case it means of course that the pupil -- as I said,
is part of the consciousness of the teacher.
Now that pupil may have estranged himself in that he's chosen
another path, or he doesn't want to -- you know want to go around
with the -- the way that the Order is serving at that time --  
  
Well, it's a symptom of the free will of people to be able to
decide themselves whether they feel an attunement with the way
you're doing things -- 

But still, if you are, again, a teacher, then of course you will
always hold these people very dearly -- very sacredly, I mean --
in your consciousness. Even though they -- it's curious of course
to see that the -- people who are friends can all of a sudden
become enemies -- it's a very -- for me its always baffling
because -- one can disagree with a person without being inimicable
-- it's a question of being -- of respect  of a person's point of
view.
{ni-31}

 But the love is the strongest thing, because that -- when we're
dealing with real people of course, then the link of love will
always be there, whatever the -- opinion of a person is.

In fact, Hazrat Inayat Khan says something very remarkable when he
says that -- the initiation is like a companionship of say --
well, I interpret it as being like for example making a trip in
the mountains with a guide -- and then he says, The time may come
when that which the teacher had to teach has been given, and the -
- then one is friends.  There's -- of courrse there's always that
element of frinedship there, and of course if the pupil does not
look upon the teacher for guidance, then of course the teacher is
unable to teach him, then it's just an ordinary friendship, which
is very nice but the -- the teacher is in a difficult position
because he has to somehow
{TAPE TO136 SIDE B {100}}
make the pupil understand that -- he is guiding him.  Otherwise he
foregoes his ability to guide the pupil.  So it's a friendship
with a -- how can I say -- with a particular bent.
{ni-32}

You see, the whole -- the key to the whole situation is that if a
person thinks that he is right, he's not a pupil.  I mean if he
thinks that his way is THE way then he doesn't have to learn, and
there's no point in coming to a teacher -- you have your own way
then go your own way.  It's OK, there's nothing wrong with it, but
it's not the way of -- if you want training, that means to say
that you must be prepared to question your way of thinking and of
seeing things -- and you can only be prepared to do that if you
have sufficient trust in the teacher's way -- or if it somehow you
have the intuition that that is the way, even though it doesn't
make sense to your mind.
{ni-33}  

It's a challenge to the mind.

So in that sense  ?they're both? -- as I say, when one takes
initiation one accepts to follow a training.  We have respect for
the freedom of those who are undergoing the training, because we
don't want people just to pay lip-service to something that hasn't
become a deep conviction in them.  And we link people to the
hierarchy of Masters Saints and Prophets.

I don't like the idea that one is a Sufi or not a Sufi, like it's
a kind of label, like one is a Catholic or not a Catholic, or --
even these days, that doesn't make sense anymore.  
{ni-33a}


One can say that one has taken initiation in the Sufi Order.  And
one can say that one is deeply linked with a teacher, or an
initiator, and through the initiator to maybe the initiator of
that initiator.  You know that this is -- the secret of -- that
transforms an ordinary person into a teacher.  What makes an
ordianry person into a teacher.  Well it's the fact that through
the initiation one concentrates so much upon the teacher that one
begins to manifest the qualities of his being.  And one should not
concentrate on his personality, but on his -- let's say, eternal
being.  It's like , we've been -- well, we haven't done these
practices as much in detail as we will be doing -- like the
difference between concentrating X and concetrating on a person -- 
thinking of that person -- or then experiencing what it's like to
be that person -- that is, getting into the consciousness of that
person when that person is

 [sic, is -- though I would have thought -- isn't.
So this is a point that I'd like to see confirmed, from other
lectures. ]
{ni-34}    

in his personal consciousness --  and then there's a third stage,
which is experiencing what that person would be experiencing if he
were in his higher consciousness, you see.

So -- when you -- this concentration on that teacher shouild never
be concentration on the teacher in his human nature -- but should
always be concentration on the divine nature that is coming
through him at certain momemnts when he is in his highest [or:
higher] consciousness.

And maybe at some moments he's not in his highest concsciousness,
and so the divine aspect of his being is hidden.  And that's one
of the grave mistakes that people make, to get themselves
attatched to the person of the teacher.  And that's the reason why
Jelal-ad-din Rumi says -- Islana(?) says -- the real guru -- he
says the real murshid -- the real Pir, he says -- becomes --
destroys that idol that people make of him.  

[Cf. HIK, "Shatter your ideals on the rock of truth." (938,
Gayan/Vadan/Boulas ]

{TAPE TO136 SIDE B [150}}
And you see -- everwhere around you see people who are attatched
to the -- the personality of the teacher.  And Hazrat Inayat Khan
didn't want that.  And of course as you know that's absolutely
contrary to Islam.  That's the reason why -- in fact, that's the
power of Islam.   They didn't want any photograph [sic but (!)] of
the Prophet Muhammed, so that one wouldn't make an idol of him.
         
So one enters into the consciousness of the teacher -- the
conscciousness that he would would be having if he were in his --
let's say in his higher state of consciousness.  Now when he is in
that state of consciousness he enters into the  consciousness of
his teacher -- who enters into the consciousness of his teacher --
and so the consciousness of all the Masters Saints and Prophets
comes through.

I'll give you an example of this because I was -- it was my second
retreat I think -- it was in Hydrobad -- I was sitting in the --
well, it was in an old grave -- the grave actually of the --
actually its very ?rare? -- of this very Madzhub that I was
talking about -- this very dervish that I was talking about -- the
teacher of the -- who was the teacher of the teacher of my father
-- and I was doing this retreat under the  instructions of the
grandson of that dervish -- and I was repeating the zikr -- for 40
days, and fasting -- and I was -- not seeing anyone, of course --
and at the end of the day he would pull me out of that grave -- 

And this time -- so he had told me -- well of course the only
reason why I accepted to go under his training, was because he
said, your teacher is Hazrat Inayat Khan, so you just concentrate
on him -- I'm just there as a monitor  -- and then he said -- that
is what establishes a connection, that is that when you're doing
the zikr, you forget yourself and you are -- you enter into the
consciousness of your teacher doing the zikr -- 

So I forgot myself, and I was Hazrat Inayat Khan repeateing the
zikr -- and while I was repeating the zikr, I saw the teacher of
Hazrat Inayat Khan -- because if I was in the consciousness of
Hazrat Inayat Khan, of course he was concentrating on his teacher,
so I would see -- and as I got in the consciousness of the teacher
of Hazrat Inayat Khan, then I got in the consciousness of the
teacher of the teacher of Hazrat Inayat Khan, at whose grave I was
sitting.  And when I came out of the room -- the cell -- and he
pulled me out -- 

{ni-35 maybe}
[So ok, this 'grave' was not a Western hole-in-the-ground, but an
Eastern tomb -- a small stone room -- ]

as I said -- as ?a matter of fact?  he said, Vilayat -- and I 
thought -- Vilayat, that's strange -- familiar name -- and he
looked at me and he said, You saw him -- and I was in silence, I
wasn't able to say it -- so he could see on my face that I had
seen his grandfather -- 

Well, that's an example of what I'm trying to say, that one gets
into the consciousness -- now I'd gone that far, but one shouild
be able to get further and further into the consciousness of each
one of the teachers, and finally you get into the consciousness of
the whole hierarchy of Masters Saints and Prophets.  And that's
what happens to you on a retreat, you start seeing the faces of
wonderful beings -- it's incredible -- they just flash upon you
like that -- because you've established a connection -- 

So what I'm saying by that is that you -- the real teacher will
never limit you to his consciousness.

And Hazrat Inayat Khan even says that evem more specifically when
he said that -- A teacher, a real teacher, can hoist you far
beyond his own consciousness -- he said, With one swing of his arm
he will hoist you well above his shoulders .

My 'cello teacher couldn't play the 'cello very well but
{TAPE TO136 SIDE B {200}}
he was the most wonderful teacher.
Actually he wasn't my 'cello teacher, he was a teacher who gave me
some lessons in 'cello.  He didn't play that well, but he could
teach wonderfully.

So -- this is as much as I can say for the moment about the
meaning of initiation.

One is in a maqam, one is in a certain state -- stage -- 
And you know how one get stuck in a stage, that one can't advance
any more, that is where one is, now.   And you need something,
some push, to get you further.  That's why one ?sees? initiation.

Now the fact is that it's a little bit like the alchemical process
-- it's a process of incubation -- like soomething is happening
inside one, but it hasn't manifested to view yet.  And it takes
something to trigger off that -- all the forces that have been
brewing inside you.  So in a sense one could say that initiation
is just that action which brings all of the things that have been
building up into action -- brings it into action.

So in a sense one could say of course that initiation is something
that -- it's like passing a threshold, it's -- every time one goes
from one maqam to another, it's something cosmic that happens to a
person, whether there's an initiator there or not, it's that [or:
just] happens to a person when he's passed a threshhold.  It's
like a quantum leap, you see.  That all that's been preparing has
all of a sudden come to -- broken through, let's say.  

It's always accompanied by a crisis -- sometimes a crisis in one's
personal life -- a crisis in one's understanding -- and it's
accompanied with a -- by a state of purification -- perhaps one
has to give up something that one was addicted to -- and it is --
like cigarettes, for example -- 
[ Someone in the audience, maybe Saliq, laughs a bit harshly ]
?Saliq? given them -- [PVK remark to someone in the audience --
?XX up? -- PVK adds -- I ?like to? pulling your leg -- ]  -- 

and sometimes it's -- one goes through a test -- this is what I
should have said when I was speaking about what the teacher does
to you -- he puts you to a test.  Now that -- I already said it
when the guide, the mountain guide is -- tells you to swing your
arm over to that ledge -- where you're being put to a test -- like
you think, well, I can't do it, and he says, you can -- and that's
the test -- the teacher puts you through a test -- he asks you to
do something -- and you think, well, why does he ask me to do
that, it's ridiculous, it doesn't make sense -- well it's not what
you do that's important, it's the fact of your trusting yourself
to do it -- that's the important thing -- so he might ask you to
do something that really doesn't make sense -- and you're judging
it from the point of view of your understanding -- and he's trying
to -- he has something else in view -- 
{ni-36}

he's trying to give you -- to encourage your courage -- to give
you more courage -- 

And if you don't pass the test, well then the teacher -- well,
maybe the teacher shouldn't be upset, but he thinks, well, -- what
a pity.  
[TAPE TO136 SIDE B {250}}
{ni-36a}


In fact, the teacher sees "what you would be if you could be what
you should be" 
[ there is laughter from the class, indicating that this phrase
had by the time of this lecture already become a stock-phrase with
PVK ]
And you don't -- perhaps you don't see it yourself -- and he's
trying to make you realize that you could be it.
And it's a question of your power, he's trying to give you self-
confidence, that you can do it.  And that's why he's putting you
through a test.  And so those who can't follow the test -- drop
out -- they ?know I can't do anything ?what can you? and they --
drop out.                                                     

But anyway, every true initiation is accompanied by a test -- and
sometimes -- life itself is a test, the real guru is G_d -- the
Superguru -- who -- is planning all our lives in such a fantastic
way it's just incredible -- 
{ni-37}

and the guru supplements that -- the personal guru supplements
that testing -- but life itself tests you.  But maybe he makes you
conscious of the test -- that it is a test.  Because otherwise one
might not realize that it is a test.  

Now why then, is there amy -- I mean, is there any action of the
guru then in giving the initiation, or isn't it something that
just happens to you then at a certain moment, and there's a sudden
change in your state.

Well, actually if the real teacher will just sense the moment when
you have passed through a change, a quantum leap, and will confirm 
it in his initiation -- that's at least one thing that the guru
can do sometimes, he confirms something that's -- that may have
already happened -- or, it's just at the moment when its happening
that he sort of gives it the -- its stamp, let's say.  

On the other hand he may be that -- the trigger, the catalyst,
that sets off the process of transformation that has already been
incubating all that time, into motion.  

Now there are cases where this happens, for example -- SWAMI
MUKTANANDA speaks about  what his swami,  ?Nitiam Mortananada? --
NITIANADA did to him just by his presence -- he triggered off
something.  This was already there in Muktananda, but all of a
sudden the action of guru was here quite important.  But a lot of
people think, well, then  --  I mean they come to a guru because
they hope that the guru will do it for them.  It doesn't work that
way.  It works because it was already there in Muktananda, and
that's why it worked.  ?Here today?

So in several cases a guru can trigger off something that is
already in you.

Now -- it doesn't just depend upon the guru either.  It depends
upon that Click between the two of you -- that certain -- whatever
it is, that chemistry, I don't know how to call it -- which
happens when -- in the connection of two beings -- at a -- at a
very high level.   And that level is something like what we
experienced this morning -- something happens.  And all that's
been preparing for itself breaks through at that moment.  And then
the initiation is a very traumatic event that takes place.
{ni-38}  

Now remember that we are trying to do on the earth what is
happening in the heavens, we are -- our -- different grades and so
on.  
{ni-39}

It's a reflection on the earth of the way things are at the soul
level.  And what we do on earth is very imperfect.  And so what --
for example -- what a person, a leader, might assess a pupil to be
4th grade, or 5th grade, or 7th grade and so on
{TAPE TO136 SIDE B [300}}
and -- or 10th grade, and so on -- and one wonders, what that --
how real it is -- like -- does it depend upon the assessment of
the teacher -- and do they all assess the same way  -- and why is
it that this person is that grade, and that person is that grade -
- he seems more advanced, and he seems lesss advanced -- and you
know -- I get so tired of this whole story that -- I can very well
understand that -- why some people who said that -- Murshid --
that [if] he had come back from India, he would have abolished all
the grades.
{ni-40}

And sometimes I feel very much like doing it.
[PVK is laughing as he says this.}
So then I'd have to apply it to myself, so I'd be Mr. Khan.
{ni-41}
                                         
It might happen -- [unclear remarks] -- doing away with all the
robes -- and the beard, and everything else -- and I -- like
KRISHNAMURTI -- well, that's a way of doing things -- but -- it
doesn't ring true -- because in fact everyone is in a certain
place in the whole scheme of things -- and one mustn't think of it
in terms of superiority and inferitority.  It's a question of the
ammount of responsiblity that one takes on.  Now some people would
rather have so much responsibility.  And others are just made to
take responsibility.  And so they -- we call it a grade, and I
think that word is wrong, or rank -- it's like a certificate of
proficiency or something like that.  Something like that. 
    
And the word Master also -- I think you can use the word like a
master baker, or a master mechanic -- in the old days of course
they used that word in the trades -- in the trade unions -- 
[Trade Guilds ]

In this sense of course an initiation can be given through the
air, let's say, without the actual presence of the person, if one
is really reaching a person at a distance. 
{ni-42}

So -- let's "give to Ceasar what belongs to Caesar, and give to
G_d what belongs to G_d"
{ni-43} 

Never lose sight of the real thing.  Nobody can take away what
your are.
{ni-44} 

And nobody can make you what you're not.  
Everything -- people can ascribe to you all kinds of grades.  You
are what you are.  
{ni-45} 

And nobody sit on a -- in a place which is not his -- for very
long -- somebody will try to -- ?bolt? you over -- 
{ni-46} 

And yet -- when we are in our higher consciousness -- highest
consciousness -- we are the Divine reality -- and we may fall back
into our lowest consciousness -- so then we are only a very small
and inadequate fraction of the reality -- 
{TAPE TO136 SIDE B {350}}

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================================================================

Additional notes knocked off to =ni17g
To be added to =pvmto136
or a new doc, =pvoto136
NOTES DEEP_6'd TO =pvnto136 + =PVOTO136
FLYING EDIT OF THIS VERBATIM WILL BE =pveto136

================================================================
sa, Campra, 13 March '05 -- 3 Adar Bet -- "Be Happy, It's Adar"
New moon clear in the sky -- stars out -- 
==============================================================