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How is life in jail?
Life is good. Ramayan keeps me company.
There are newspapers to read. And there is of course Bhagwad Gita to
read over and over again. There is nothing to complain about.
Do you know that you are internationally
famous—or notorious?
I know. Circumstances made me famous.
So did you kill Australian born Christian
missionary Graham Stuart Staines and his two young children?
No. I did not kill them. But it is
true that I spearheaded the movement against missionaries. I was actively
involved too in the movement against illegal trade in cows and cow slaughter.
Since I was possibly the most famous name in the region, the police
implicated me in the killings.
The day the Staines were killed at
Manoharpur, I was at least 12-13 kms. away from the place. But yes,
I did not like Graham Staines. For that matter, I never liked any missionaries.
Why didn't you like them?
There are enough reasons to hate
them. Missionaries have been targeting our religion. They have been
converting Hindus by deceit and inducements.
Our religion is under siege. So to
oppose them was my responsibility as a true Hindu. Therefore I worked
in the region, organising people against conversions and cow slaughter.
We also worked for protecting forests. I was only doing my duty.
So at least you are admitting that
you were involved in the incidents of hijacking trucks transporting cows
and forcibly setting them free? In some cases, the drivers were also beaten
up and there are over 10 such police cases pending against you.
I did not do them personally, but
my supporters might have done them. The situation was such that such
things had to be done. The local police did not do their duty. The police
took bribes from the cow traders openly and in some cases, actually
escorted the trucks themselves. When the police did not do their duty,
our supporters had to step in. Illegal cow slaughter had to be stopped
at any cost.
So you are saying you did not kill
Staines. But what about the two other subsequent murders - of Sheikh Rehman
in Padiabeda and of Father Arul Doss in Jamboni? You are a suspect in
both the cases.
I was not involved. But then my supporters
could have done them. For besides opposing the missionaries, there has
been a movement even against the Muslims in the locality. And possibly,
both Rehman and Doss had personal enmities.
Why were you opposed to both the communities?
We never liked their activities.
The Muslims targeted cows and our religion. The missionaries were into
conversions. And the neo-converts were being unleashed on the local
Hindus. How can any religion sleep over such constant attacks?
So you were not involved, but your
supporters could have been behind the killings?
Maybe yes. Maybe no. Hindus are opposed
to both Muslims and Christians and the fight is still on here. It's
a fact of life and when there is a fight, some people do die.
But what about the two young children
of Staines, Philip and Timothy? Why did they have to die?
I don't know. I have nothing to say.
You must surely be regretting the deaths
of the two children?
No. I have no regrets. And I will
never regret. I have other important things to regret, like the loss
of lives in the Orissa cyclone. I also regret the regular deaths of
Indian jawans being killed by missionary-backed insurgents in the North
East. When Hindus die, others don't cry. So why should we weep when
others die? Whatever has happened is right. Whatever that will happen
will also be right.
What all is going to happen?
What will happen is not in my hands.
But I am certain that cow slaughter and conversions will stop once for
ever. And till the time it happens, the fight would be on. It's the
responsibility of every Hindu to fight such evils.
So you consider yourself as a foot
soldier of Hindu Dharma?
Why not? I have always been a proud
Hindu. And some years ago, after I had come down to live in Orissa,
there was an incident between us and the Muslims here that forced me
to come out into the open. I started opposing the missionaries as well
as the Muslims. Not every Muslim but only those who were into the illegal
trade in cows.
What you say makes you sound more and
more like a RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) man?
No. Never. I have never been in the
RSS. Yes, they talk like me. But they don't do what I do. I have seen
cows being taken to be slaughtered before the eyes of RSS men. And they
did nothing.
If not the RSS, you must have been
with VHP (Vishwa Hindu Parishad)?
No. never.
What about the Bajrang Dal?
No. Never.
You had no relations with the BJP or
its allies?
What is the meaning of your relations?
For that matter, as a resident of the locality, I had social relations
with politicians of every political party—Congress and the BJP. But
I have never been a member of any political party. I know the local
Biju Janata Dal leaders. I also know the Congressmen. And by virtue
of being almost neighbours, I knew the former BJP MP from Keonjhar.
But I have never been with any party for I never wanted to contest elections.
But in your struggle against cow slaughter
and conversions, wasn't it expected that you would take support from the
BJP?
We did not. For we realised that
if we take a particular party's support, there would be others to oppose
us. Our movement was mass-based, cutting across party lines. We wanted
every Hindu to be on our side. Not just Hindus who support the BJP.
As a result, we had everyone supporting us, be it Congressmen, Jharkhandis
and others.
Who do you consider your leader?
I am self-taught and self inspired.
I do my own bidding. But yes, if I like anyone speaking, it is Bal Thackeray.
He calls spade a spade and I like the way he talks. Thackerayji first
talked about stopping cricket matches between India and Pakistan and
at that time everyone laughed. But after Kargil, the others too wanted
such a ban. Shiv Sena appears more sincere and committed to the cause.
I would want to meet Bal Thackeray today or tomorrow. I am his fan.
Now that you are in jail, organisations
like Dharmarakshak Dara Singh Sahayata Samiti have come up and some BJP
MPs like Dilip Singh Judeo are openly involved with them. They want you
to be free at the earliest and carry on with your fight against conversions.
I have heard about them.
True, the work for Hindu dharma must go on. But I don't think the MPs
would stand by us in the long run. Since they are in parties, they won't
go the entire length. I am not counting on them.
So you are disillusioned with the BJP,
RSS and the others?
I am neither in awe nor disillusioned
with them. But the fact is they don't practice what they preach. So
why preach at all?
Tell us why Graham Staines had to die?
He must have got killed because he
was into conversions. This is certain.
But then what was his children's fault?
They were not into converting people?
This I can't answer.
What if you ever meet Mrs. Graham Staines?
Will you have anything to tell her?
No, I never want to meet her. But
if I meet her accidentally, I would respect her since she is a lady.
That's courtesy. But let me be very clear. If she is also into conversions,
I will oppose her.
But why oppose voluntary conversions?
That we are not opposing. But we
are opposed to conversions by inducements, which are more the rule.
That's been the rule here. People are being even been bribed with paddy
to convert. No one converts on his own here. That is why the administration
has no records of conversions. No one notifies. But the law should be
equal for all.
What led to your arrest? It is said
that you wanted to acquire a gun and the police had you trapped?
It's totally wrong. I was never arrested.
I surrendered. I walked into Karanjia police station on my own since,
for the past few days, the police were torturing innocent villagers
and I could not digest it any longer.
Given my support, no police can arrest
me. I tell you, set me free again and the police will never be able
to catch me again. I will be in this region only and they cant get me.
And I never wanted a gun. I never needed even a lathi.
And how did the police treat you after
that?
They beat me up, first in the Kuliana
Police Station and then when I was in the State Crime Branch under custody.
They forced me to say what I did not want to say. They made me admit
what I haven't done.
What do you think will happen now?
What can happen when I have not killed?
I will be acquitted. The cases against me have no merit. I will be a
free man.
But what if you are convicted?
It can never be. In any case, I am
prepared to be a martyr for the cause of the Hindus.
Once you are free, if ever, what will
you do?
I will go back to doing what I have
been doing - against cow slaughter and conversions. Once they stop,
I will do personal work. But till that time, our struggle would continue.
The government must stop conversions and cow slaughter. For if they
are not stopped, more might get killed. Anything can happen. Our supporters
would be provoked to do drastic things. It's better both conversions
and cow slaughter is therefore stopped at the earliest.
Do you have any plans to be in politics?
I have not given it a thought as
yet. But if the need arises, maybe one day I will be in politics. But
as of now, I have never given it a thought. As of now, I don't want
to be in politics.
Note: The above interview
has been taken from the 'Bharatiya Pragna', June 2000 Volume 2 Number
6.
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